WTF Are We Doing?

[fordtraktor]

Of course it can happen. We had one drop dead from a suspected cardiac event. In the field, the grass around her not disturbed at all. She clearly just dropped dead. But she was 38.

the real question is whether and what level of exertion makes it more likely, and if there are tests we can do that are both affordable and accurate to diagnose horses that should not be subjected to such exertion preemptively. It may be, for example, that someday horses will need a stress test to run FEI or whatever. Maybe for showjumpers too? Dressage doesn’t seem as stressful, have not heard of a dressage horse dropping dead right after a competition round.

it is terrific that arthur’s issue was discovered. Most horses don’t get that level of anticipatory vetting. It isn’t practical. But if it can be done for a reasonable amount accurately, I am sure everyone would be on board. That is why studies need to happen. No one wants to lose a horse on course.

[vineyridge]

As least as far as stallions dropping dead, that happened not as rarely with Nasrullah line studs. Mill Reef was put down at 14 because of a serious heart condition.

[fordtraktor]

Yet Mill Reef is a name we welcome. Because his descendants are often very talented jumpers.

again, we need more targeted ways to identify cardiac weakness ahead of time…because, also, Mill Reef must have thousands of descendants many of whom are just fine to compete. When I lived in London I watched jump races multiple days every week on BBC and half the field had Mill Reef for every race. A few gens back but there.

i would not avoid that line because of what happened to Mill Reef. Who would? Who knows what happens to most of the pedigree. We are lucky in the age of Internet, we have lots more info than ever before…but it is not easy to compute what to do with it.

[Gestalt]

@snowrider

Back in the 90s on the west coast we have 4 or 5 do this over a fairly short period of time, probably two years. I know at least one of them was standing eating hay in turnout when it happened because I was walking towards her and looking at her at the time. She just flipped her head up and dropped. Aortic rupture, and one had a rupture in the neck/ head. All vaguely related, mostly big, mostly chestnut TBs or TB crosses, mostly born in the 70s and 80s. Which was probably the second most common description for horses at the time, after bay TB!

It was common enough that I remember my trainers vet knew the bloodlines it happened to. I wan to say some Secretariat descendant line although I really don’t recall. One thing I do recall that they recommended was really staying on top of worming those horses as they believed it had an effect. Whether or not that’s true I do not know. It was around the time some new types of wormers came out - Quest maybe? and I think it’s become less common (or those bloodlines died out) as I don’t know anyone who’s lost a horse that way personally in LA since probably 2002.

Sudden catastrophic internal bleeding is also a really common way for very old ponies to go in my experience, I think that is often related to tumors, or so I’ve read.

In the 70’s we were looking at 2 and 3 yo tb’s that had washed out of training. One of the guys we had helping us had a list of trainers from that track that he would not deal with. He said those horses hadn’t been wormed, ever, and he felt that the damage to the intestines was already underway and would cause problems later. I can’t tell you verbatim what he said, but that is the gist of it. He had been around the tracks for a long time. Something about the parasite load vs intestinal wall.

[JER]

@fordtraktor

i would not avoid that line because of what happened to Mill Reef.

When you say ‘because of what happened to Mill Reef’, do you mean the heart condition that ended his life or are you referring to the cannon bone fracture (during a routine training gallop) that ended his career?

[snowrider]

@Gestalt

In the 70’s we were looking at 2 and 3 yo tb’s that had washed out of training. One of the guys we had helping us had a list of trainers from that track that he would not deal with. He said those horses hadn’t been wormed, ever, and he felt that the damage to the intestines was already underway and would cause problems later. I can’t tell you verbatim what he said, but that is the gist of it. He had been around the tracks for a long time. Something about the parasite load vs intestinal wall.

Some of the horses I’m thing of were necropsied for insurance. The one that dropped dead on the spot had an aortic rupture and had been vetted not that long before when he was purchased. Everyone said there was no way to know. Absolute gem of a horse. The second one it was attributed to parasitic damage but I want to say to blood vessels in the brain? Could have been the heart though it was a long time ago. It had never been wormed as a youngster apparently then was purchased and put into work and died a couple years later. The young owner said the horse felt funny and got off minutes before, it could have killed her otherwise as it went straight over backwards when it happened, stiff like a board.

I think younger people don’t realize how much damage parasite caused back in the day- it seemed like far more horses coliced and died, or had bad arthritis by the mid teens or couldn’t hold condition or just dropped dead one day. I don’t know that you can attribute problems to bloodlines so much given the vast improvements in veterinary care. We didn’t even know EPM existed till recently. Andthe recognition and treatment of ulcers has also made a profound difference. It’s almost eliminated deaths in sled dog racing too.

JER- I would think that most cardiac issues that can be found would be found during a vetting these days, no?

[McVillesMom]

The parasite-related issue several of you have referred to may be verminous arteritis, which causes damage, thrombosis, and potential rupture to the cranial mesenteric artery (part of the intestinal blood supply). Fortunately less common these days.

[Jealoushe]

Updated, R.I.P. Let it Bee

http://eventingnation.com/let-it-bee-collapses-dies-at-burnham-market-international/

[Gestalt]

@Jealoushe

Updated, R.I.P. Let it Bee

http://eventingnation.com/let-it-bee-collapses-dies-at-burnham-market-international/

Damn, he was an amazing horse. His connections must be devastated.

[Jealoushe]

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/kathryn-robinson-tribute-to-let-it-bee-died-burnham-market-648332

[Gestalt]

@Jealoushe

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/kathryn-robinson-tribute-to-let-it-bee-died-burnham-market-648332

Thank you for the link. He was a lovely boy. It’s interesting that when she bought him as a green 7 yo, he didn’t pass the vet check. Makes you wonder how many solid horses don’t pass the checks. RIP Bee.

[Jealoushe]

Yes interesting comment for sure. A horse of a lifetime.

[skydy]

Here is the Chronicle article : http://www.chronofhorse.com/article/…win-rivers-cic

[LaurieB]

@vineyridge

As least as far as stallions dropping dead, that happened not as rarely with Nasrullah line studs. Mill Reef was put down at 14 because of a serious heart condition.

Mill Reef was born in 1968 and died in 1986. He was 18 when he was put down, not 14.

[runNjump86]

@Blugal

Unfortunately another fatal collapse on a XC course: Walterstown Don died between fences in the CIC3* at Twin Rivers today.

This is absolutely heartbreaking. That horse was adored by Bec, Lauren, and so many other people.

[skydy]

It is heartbreaking every time.

[Jealoushe]

At least they said unknown causes instead of natural causes this time. I’m glad to see some people still care because I was a getting a bit worried these horses are dying often and it is going unnoticed.

[Jealoushe]

Just a reminder of all the horses lost in the last 12 months; last 3 months a horse has died once a month collapsing on course.

Walterstown Don (US) April 18 - Collapsed on Course between fences CIC***
Let it Bee (UK) March 18 - Collapsed on course between fences A
Consensus (USA) Feb 18 - Collapsed between fences
LV Hat Trick (NZ) Feb 18 - Leg fracture on the flat
The Manx Man (USA) Nov 17 - Rotational fall training level.
Crackerjack (FRA) Oct 2017 - leg fracture on flat /change of footing
Bob the Builder (POL) Aug 2017 - leg fracture from fall from a fence
Abracadabra (CAN) July 2017- leg fracture from fall from a fence
Dempsey (CAN) June 2017 - ulna fracture CCI3*
Jaeda (CAN) June 2017 - collapsed on course CCI3*
All Aboard (USA) June 2017 - collapsed on course Intermediate Level
Shanghai Joe (UK) May 2017 - rider fall, horse ran and slipped on

[seriously1]

I wonder how the stats compare with other equine sports -like racing and jumping?

[JER]

@seriously?

I wonder how the stats compare with other equine sports -like racing and jumping?

The Aintree meeting was last week, culminating in the Grand National. This is three days of jump racing leading up to the GN, which has 40 horses attempting 30 huge jumps over 4.5 miles.

One horse at the entire meeting had to be put down due to injury. This was in the Foxhunter’s Chase and there was much public outcry.

The GN itself was a spectacular race with a photo finish for 1st/2nd and for 3rd/4th. 12 horses finished - the rest either fell or were pulled up. One horse, a storied veteran who got caught behind a faller, received medical treatment on course as did one rider. The horse is okay; the rider broke his arm.

The GN used to have fatalities almost every year. But there haven’t been any since 2012 and in those two incidents, one horse got hit by a faller and the other horse - who never never never should have been entered in this race - ran into a standard while running loose.

The decrease in fatalities is not by chance. Aintree switched to plastic core fences in 2013 - more on that here. Every incident is carefully studied and safety features are added/amended as necessary, like they’re doing now with the pile up last weekend at the Canal Turn.

Jump racing and the GN in particular have been in the crosshairs of animal rights activists for many years, as they should be. The racing authorities have responded well with the understanding that the public loves racing but no one wants to see horses hurt.

I would love to see eventing become as responsive to safety concerns as NH racing has been.