WWYD... horse being misrepresented

[skydy]

@Scribbler

Exposing the dishonesty is different from seeking legal redress

I could imagine a successful civil case that rescheduled a cash settlement that forbid you to discuss the result publicly.

On the other hand you can go into SM wars on your own steam but such things can rebound on you and get you banned from groups or called a troll.

I’m not sure what you are responding to. No one has said that there is no difference between the two.

[3PB]

Thank you everyone for your responses.

For those asking, the horse was sold for 7k and is now being advertised at 30k. Whether they will actually get that number is doubtful given our current circumstances.

I don’t have any intentions of pursuing this legally. I just kind of feel a moral obligation to do something knowing that the horse is being falsely advertised. I am also worried about the horse’s welfare, he is not the type that will do well being passed around (hence why I did not want to sell him to someone who was going to buy him to immediately flip).

[Scribbler]

@3PB

Thank you everyone for your responses.

For those asking, the horse was sold for 7k and is now being advertised at 30k. Whether they will actually get that number is doubtful given our current circumstances.

I don’t have any intentions of pursuing this legally. I just kind of feel a moral obligation to do something knowing that the horse is being falsely advertised. I am also worried about the horse’s welfare, he is not the type that will do well being passed around (hence why I did not want to sell him to someone who was going to buy him to immediately flip).

Hmmm. That is a huge price jump. It’s out of one category of horse into an entirely other categoriy and probably way more than you ever dreamed of asking. Of course you’ll never know what he really sells for.

I assume he also changed from being being an OTTB to a WB in the process or similar.

As far as his welfare, if Horse Trader sells him.to a good home he won’t continue to be passed around.

I don’t think you have a moral obligation to do anything since none of this is your fault. I can see being pretty pissed off and wanting to let the world know. But be careful because actions undertaken in anger can often rebound on you.

[bornfreenowexpensive]

@Scribbler

Well, if it turns out OP can take legal action and it’s effective I’ll be very happy for them and happily retract my words! The other posters didn’t actually identify themselves as attorneys in Britain so I had know way of knowing that, and I’m actually in Canada.

My experience in Canada is a that you can get a “scare letter” from a lawyer for a couple hundred dollars but if you want to follow up with actual legal action on any kind of issue you are well into the thousands.

Also I’m not sure what OP wants. In a civil suit you need some kind of goal in mind ( return horse or pay more for horse).

Depending on the jurisdiction…there are often small clams courts where you do not need an attorney and can do it yourself. Yes…lawyers cost a lot of money. My hourly rate would make it not cost effective for me…but there are others where it wouldn’t cost thousands. Again…we don’t know enough details to give any real advice here…but I just hate it when people act like there is no legal footing. I’m not aware of any jurisdiction where lying to get a deal done is ok. But yes…proving it can be hard. And even if you can’t prove it…I would certainly report this person to any better business bureaus and any make some noise. The horse world is small…

[Posting_Trot]

I don’t know what you want to do, and it sounds like you don’t really want to pursue any legal action. I totally get feeling both used and angry: used because the trainer identified you as a “mark”–someone who could be easily deceived and taken advantage of, and angry because you thought the trainer was legitimate and on the up and up, and that turns out not to be true.

Even if all you want to do is out the trainer for a lack of ethics, you should first make absolutely sure that it is your (former) horse in the ad. Once you’re sure you have to decide what you want to do.

[3PB]

@Scribbler

Hmmm. That is a huge price jump. It’s out of one category of horse into an entirely other categoriy and probably way more than you ever dreamed of asking. Of course you’ll never know what he really sells for.

I assume he also changed from being being an OTTB to a WB in the process or similar.

As far as his welfare, if Horse Trader sells him.to a good home he won’t continue to be passed around.

I don’t think you have a moral obligation to do anything since none of this is your fault. I can see being pretty pissed off and wanting to let the world know. But be careful because actions undertaken in anger can often rebound on you.

You are correct, an unraced TB miraculously became a warmblood. The horse has papers, but I assume she will claim they are lost and create a new identity for him.

I hope he does find a good home, but this person’s dishonesty has not inspired much confidence in their dedication to finding an ideal home for the horse rather than simply trying to make a buck.

[3PB]

@Posting Trot

I don’t know what you want to do, and it sounds like you don’t really want to pursue any legal action. I totally get feeling both used and angry: used because the trainer identified you as a “mark”–someone who could be easily deceived and taken advantage of, and angry because you thought the trainer was legitimate and on the up and up, and that turns out not to be true.

Even if all you want to do is out the trainer for a lack of ethics, you should first make absolutely sure that it is your (former) horse in the ad. Once you’re sure you have to decide what you want to do.

I have verified it. The horse world is small. A friend of mine actually inquired about him and then contacted me once she saw the videos and put two and two together.

[mooonie]

Well, the horse market has just tanked, so she will probably not “flip” the horse for profit. Hope she likes him

[skydy]

@3PB

I have verified it. The horse world is small. A friend of mine actually inquired about him and then contacted me once she saw the videos and put two and two together.

Well done you for caring and following up when you see dishonesty. :yes:

I hope very much that the horse lands softly.

[gertie06]

You need to think about the desired outcome. Which do you want:

1. New owner (who clearly has no desire to keep the horse) being forced to keep the horse.
2. Horse being returned to you.
3. Horse being sold to a new owner who loves him (even if they overpay).

Which one is in the horse’s best interest?

Yes, people can be crappy. But in this particular situation, I think your “moral obligation” is actually to the horse. Ask yourself what is best for HIM. If you confront the new owner, make her angry, and make it impossible for her to sell the horse, what’s going to happen to him??

As an unrelated side note, I would really like to know who’s paying $30K for a grade horse in this market…because I’ve got some oceanfront property in Arizona…

[trubandloki]

@gertie06

As an unrelated side note, I would really like to know who’s paying $30K for a grade horse in this market…because I’ve got some oceanfront property in Arizona…

A good percentage of the horses competing in the hunter ring do not have papers that follow them around. Their breed is what that person says it is, and that sometimes changes. So 30K for a horse with no breed papers is not really that unusual.

(Clearly this will not be such an easy task now that things are microchipped.)

[endlessclimb]

Isn’t he tattooed?

[SonnysMom]

@endlessclimb

Isn’t he tattooed?

She said he was unraced. If he was either purpose bred as a sport horse or never made it to race training or didn’t make it far enough in race training he likely never got tattooed.

[McGurk]

Yup to what Sonny said.

Most TB owners don’t bother getting the horses tattooed until they’re far enough along in training to go to the track. I believe they have to be tattooed before they work out of the gate; many owners wait until then. So not tattooed usually means never made it to the track, or made it to the track and didn’t get to work out of the gate.

In the hunter world, especially below the A level, a horse can be any breed you want to say it is. So it this horse was an attractive sport horse type, claiming it’s some flavor of WB rather than a TB is a smart marketing decision. Not ethical, but probably does increase the potential sale price.

[3PB]

Update for you all.

(No he is unfortunately not tattooed for those asking)

I contacted this person yesterday and inquired why he was for sale already and why he was being advertised as a different breed no less. That went about how you would have expected it to.

[endlessclimb]

@SonnysMom

She said he was unraced. If he was either purpose bred as a sport horse or never made it to race training or didn’t make it far enough in race training he likely never got tattooed.

She said he had papers - I would think getting JC papers would be more of a PITA than it’s worth, for the same reasons you stated. Unless there’s a secondary registration?

[SonnysMom]

@endlessclimb

She said he had papers - I would think getting JC papers would be more of a PITA than it’s worth, for the same reasons you stated. Unless there’s a secondary registration?

I thought JC papers are the easiest to “transfer”. The prior owner signs them and hands them to the new owner. No sending them to the breed club with a fee to reissue in the new owner’s name. You can just do it on-line. Old owner signed papers and hands them and maybe a bill of sale to new owner. I don’t see that as a PITA. But maybe I am missing something?

[endlessclimb]

@SonnysMom

I thought JC papers are the easiest to “transfer”. The prior owner signs them and hands them to the new owner. No sending them to the breed club with a fee to reissue in the new owner’s name. You can just do it on-line. Old owner signed papers and hands them and maybe a bill of sale to new owner. I don’t see that as a PITA. But maybe I am missing something?

I think we’re thinking of the origin of the horse differently. Some are assuming he was sport bred (not easy to get papers, live cover requirements etc). Others are assuming OTTB that trained but never raced (papers would be already in hand).

Regardless, I can see why OP is pissed.

[gertie06]

@3PB

Update for you all.

(No he is unfortunately not tattooed for those asking)

I contacted this person yesterday and inquired why he was for sale already and why he was being advertised as a different breed no less. That went about how you would have expected it to.

Curious minds want to know. What did she say?

[3PB]

@gertie06

Curious minds want to know. What did she say?

A lot of denial and excuses, as expected. Claimed she had two others in the barn that were warmbloods that she somehow got mixed up with him. Her explanation for listing him for sale was that she was trying to sell her other horses and somehow listing him would increase interest in the other horses she has for sale? That’s a new one for me. 🙄 She kept going on and on with these roundabout explanations trying to justify her actions. Started contradicting herself and a lot of what she said didn’t even make sense. Said she “used a different name because she was hoping to steer people towards the other two horses listed for sale” … if anyone can explain how that makes sense, I’m all ears…

Still angry and there’s a lot of choice names I would like to call her, but I’m trying to not get blocked for the horses sake, so maybe I’ll be able to keep track of him.