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WWYD? My horse kicked me in the ribs.

Off Course
#21

You need some help here. How anout the BO. Not to train, to teach YOU. Maybe your vet or farrier knows somebody who would be willing to show you what and how.

One bright spot here, it doesn’t sound like he spun and double barreled you, Sounds like you were just “ collateral damage” from his disobedient spook. If he really meant to go after you, you’d have been in the ER with broken ribs and possibly internal injuries.

Legend just helps the joints lubricate themselves. Sometimes we learn they were only quiet and well behaved because they hurt too much to get silly. Thafs why it’s so important to teach and enforce good manners and practice proper handling. You have some great suggestions upthread but you do need some hands on training with a real person to really teach you safe ground handling

All ten commandments of leading a horse are you MUST stay at their shoulder. They MUST also keep you at their shoulder, no speed up, no slow down, no turn away. That is what you are having trouble with because you have no way to correct him and to add more pressure if his mind wanders. Just as important is promptly releasing that pressure, he keeps miving away- you keep pulling- he keeps pulling. He’s bigger, he’s going to win.

Get somebody to spend 15 minutes with you a couple of times a week. Don’t use a chain until you know how to rig and use it, right now, it’s unintentional sloppy handling and loss of focus. Mishandle a chain on him and he will get defensive and scared. Make things worse.

This is fixable but please get somebody to help you.

1 Like
#22

Is this a new behavior for this horse, such that it might be pain related? Or is this same old same old?

Arthritis can be very painful and if it is progressing it may be that this horse is not having any good days. Previcox or bute might be good things to add to his program if he’s not already on them. If he is, and he’s older, and your vet is out of tricks, it’s not nice to hear but it wouldn’t be wrong to think about whether he is happy and comfortable enough to continue on. If he’s miserable, and also dangerous, it’s not a terrible thing to give him a few good days, put him down, and then use the time and energy you’re putting into him on another horse who needs a good home, a soft landing, and is less likely to hurt you or anyone else.

Personally, I would not mess with a horse that will kick you in hand, especially not in a busy boarding stable. All horses can have moments, but it sounds like to me you have ongoing issues with him. Yes you can break a rib this way - or get kicked in the head - or have permanent loss of mobility due to a fractured arm or leg - and that’s not only not fun but it doesn’t turn out better for him if you are incapacitated.

I know that’s not nice to hear, but I’ve seen too many experienced, capable people hurt by horses in this situation to not say it.

#23

Listen, this is a bad situation. I am all for you learning more about horse handling and improving your skills, but this is not the horse to learn it with. A kick from a horse can be a life changing event–it can cause serious injury, long term pain/disability, or death. No horse is worth that. You should not be handling this horse, end of story. There are MANY, MANY horses of all types and ages that would never even consider kicking a handler barring extreme and unusual circumstances.

As to what you should do with the horse, that’s harder to say. I think a good place to start is to get a trainer involved, primarily for evaluation of the horse’s behavior. If the horse is in so much pain–or simply so ill tempered–that he is lashing out at handlers whenever he can get away with it, I think euthanasia is on the table as a consideration. I’m really not buying the “pain” excuse for the horse’s behavior. It is true that a horse in pain can act out, but what you describe does not sound like it to me. If the horse can be set straight and back on a path where he can function as a reasonably safe and useful animal for a more experienced handler, then I think that rehoming him could be a possibility. In that case, you would need to disclose the difficulties you had with the horse in order that a future owner can take precautions.

3 Likes
#24

del

6 Likes
#25

I agree that if my horse so much as lifts a foot in my direction the roof falls in on her.

That said about 3 times a year in winter she gets so jazzed up on the path to turnout especially if other horses are loose in the roundpen we have to walk past that she becomes borderline unmanageable. I can now muscle her past but my very experienced friend could not and had to hold her still until the exciting elements in the round pen wound down.

I have never been kicked by her though. I have been knocked over. The rest of the year she is a big sweety and she has excellent ground work skills etc

That said there are many adult beginners and returning riders and newbie teens at my barn. I have see a number ofsuch folk get into trouble handling horses that do not give me any trouble at all now. So I hesitate to say this is a true problem horse. I think OP needs to get some better ground skills training first.

1 Like
#26

Honestly, I think this horse isn’t for you. I don’t know how old you are OP, but you remind me of someone at my barn. She is 75 and has an 11 yr old horse that is way too much horse for her, both on the ground and under saddle. She only walks under saddle because she’s so afraid of him. He’s also very anxious on the ground, and has run her over before. I would consider selling OP, before you get really hurt.

#27

Nervous people handling or riding nervous horses is a recipe for disaster. I applaud you for having the good heart to spend time, energy and money on an aged, difficult and unsound critter, but I agree with the others who say this is Not the horse for you.

3 Likes
#28

I haven’t read your posts beyond this thread so I’m not familiar with the backstory but I would like to echo the sentiments that though your heart appears to be in the right place, you don’t come across as having the experience to manage this kind of problem. Situations like this can go sideways (and deadly) very quickly.

If you are going to continue then you need to invest in a trainer to help you that can be hands on and in person, though trying to build confidence and new skills in a situation like this is an uphill battle. There’s no shame in admitting you aren’t equipped and getting the horse to someone who is. There’s no shame in euthanizing a horse who is too difficult/old/crippled to rehome. Sometimes it’s kinder than to try and continue to forge through, for both parties.

I would also point out that a lot of people who don’t have the experience to know the difference can misinterpret pain behavior as spooking/being difficult/becoming agitated. It’s possible he did just lose his mind momentarily due to environmental factors but I would also make doubly sure there’s no possibility of this being a pain reaction.

I’m sorry this happened and you’re going through it, I know it must be difficult and disheartening. I hope you get some help and are able to move forward, however ends up being appropriate (and safe!).

#29

This may be a dissenting opinion, but I’d rather him be worked in a round pen than seriously injure someone.

You need lessons and it sounds like your horse needs a grip on reality. Mainly, that being nervous is not an excuse to lose it and start kicking.

I have a horse right now that is at a point like this - she’s gorgeous, she’s talented, she’s smart – but when she decides she’s done under saddle, she’s done and she’s big enough that she will get someone hurt. She’s going to a cowboy and I’ve told him to be hard on her. My trainer and good friend put it very simply, “Either the horse will rise to the occasion, or it won’t. And if it doesn’t, it’s not worth the money to keep around.”

I think a lot of people tend to baby their horses too much. I’m guilty of it, too. Arthritis hurts. Being old sucks. BUT that doesn’t give a horse any right to kick at, bite at, strike at, etc a human. Maybe being in a training refresher for 30 days will make him sore, but it’s not like you’re asking someone to ride him hard in a tough sport (jumping, reining, whatever) for a month. You would be sending him to someone to work on ground manners.If this were a situation like, he’s bucking under saddle because he hurts - that’s different and I’d take a different approach. But having a horse around who has shown he has the capacity to be dangerous simply walking to the barn… that’s a BIG problem.

Personally, I’d rather my horse maybe be sore for a few weeks than have a lawsuit on my hands from him injuring a kid at the barn, or dead because he kicked me in the head instead of the ribs.

4 Likes
#30

You can absolutely round pen an older arthritic horse, without hurting them. The key is you ask for something easy, like walking a circle, maybe trot/walk transitions. Maybe ask for them to yield the hindquarters. Put them on a lead and work on yielding the forehand, yield the hindquarters and back up.

Sometimes, especially with a horse that isn’t trained, they will take off running, in which you need to use calm body language and the rope to slow or stop them, then ask again for a walk. If he is that flighty, i would expect some running. You can’t let it bother you, because I’m betting he runs in the field. If he gets uncomfortable, too bad. My safety is more important than his. Given his limitations, i would keep the lesson short.

A chain may back fire on you if he pulls back, as some react to the chain pressure by pulling back. My mother accidentally made my horse rear by not releasing the chain pressure immediately after use. She is a little timid around the horses and requested a chain because she wasn’t comfortable. The horse in question was not being bad, maybe a little fidgety. You can’t just hold steady pressure on a chain. She pulled and kept pulling. Horse backed up and did a slow motion rear because “hey! That hurts!”

i would lead with a lunge line. If the horse pulls back you can let him, without completely losing control. You can try a chain but you absolutely need to test it in an enclosed area to ensure you and he know what to expect. The danger of a chain is if he gets away from you and steps on the rope, it will do damage.

I’m afraid he got his way- running back to his buddies. This means it’s likely he will try it again.

1 Like
#31

Here is your problem. Slightly behind the lead is too loose and he is out of your eyesight. You have no control over his shoulders and it is obviously long enough that he could turn to kick at you.

As others have said the shoulder is the safest place. If the worst comes to the worst you can push off the shoulder to get away, which happened to me with a brood mare at a place of work who tried to throw herself on top of me.

I saw it happening from nowhere before it happened and I was able to push myself out of the way, she landed on the ground on her side where I had been. I was into her straight away to get up and lead correctly. I put her in the gate and let her go. Where the mare cantered off. I was told off by the manager for letting her go with her rug on. I turned on her right away and said there was no way I was putting the rug on until she calmed down as she had tried to throw herself on top of me. The way she turned and skulked off I could tell the mare had done it before and they had not told me.

Just because you have a short lead does not mean it is a tight lead. But it can be tightened immediately when needed.

Which is something my step father never learnt. 2 different horses owned by him, kicked him and broke his femur during leading. 5 years apart and those horses were not trying to get him like yours was. They were just full of joy and being led incorrectly.

#32

Thanks everyone.

I do realize that this combination (nervous person, ‘explosive’ horse) isn’t a good one. At all. The kicking isn’t completely new - he’s done it recently (a few weeks back) when something spooked him, although I had been able to keep control over his head and keep his feet away from me. I wear grippy work gloves and use a good cotton rope to lead him. He was a handful to lead when I got him, but that was just pulling towards grass. I got him to stop doing that with no problems. This year, he has started trying to get away when spooked, and it hasn’t worked for him…until this kicking started.

This time (yesterday) he got the rope away, and honestly as soon as his hooves made contact with me, I just got scared that I’d end up seriously injured (e.g. a fatal kick to the heart or head). I also realize that it’s very bad that he got away, as that just reinforced the behaviour. I get that he needed a correction at that point, but again, I got scared that if I gave him a correction, I’d get kicked at again, and not just a bump in the ribs but something worse. I do know that my lack of confidence is a problem here.

If I sold him, it would absolutely be with 100% disclosure of these issues - anything else would be irresponsible and unethical. The problem is that this horse needs about $200 worth of medications per month to be comfortable. There was a poor growing season where I live (meaning good hay is expensive) and there are a lot of horses (including 20-year-old horses) for sale in the classified ads around here. Many of the old horses for sale are quiet and safe. He’s only sound for light riding due to scar tissue in his hinds and the already mentioned arthritis. I don’t think he’s sell-able. He’d be a give away… but I’m hesitant about that as horse slaughter is legal where I live.

I wasn’t able to get to the barn today, but I have to tomorrow (farrier appointment). I should be able to discuss my situation with the barn manager. I know I can’t just continue on with the status quo.

#33

Do other people have the same issues with this horse that you do? I mean - experienced handlers?

I don’t know the backstory about you or your horse, so trying to understand. Lots of horses are only jerks for the people that let them get away with it. And others are actually “explosive.”

What is the history of this horse? What kind of training has he had in the past?

As far as giving him away or selling - I’d probably euthanize before doing that. Unless you know of a great forever home. Which are hard to come by…but do exist. I’d definitely give them full vet record access before they make any decisions.

5 Likes
#34

Don’t beat yourself up about this. Yes, ideally you would have been able to correct the behavior preferably before he got away from you, but your safety is the most important thing you should be concerned with. There’s no shame in just getting out of dodge when things get out of control and it’s good that you realized you were in over your head instead of potentially escalating the situation. The most dangerous things I’ve ever seen happen have come from people who didn’t recognize they were working beyond their capabilities.

I would call your barn manager before you even go to the barn and have a conversation about what happened and what you need help with moving forward. I would not continue handling this horse on my own.

#35

I have seen so many nervous newbies have “problem” horses that didn’t give other people significant trouble. Those newbies have been helped by intensive coaching by local groundwork trainers. So whether this horse is like this for experienced handlers is a big question.

I’m assuming this is some kind of rescue situation? How long have you had the horse? Why did you take him on? It also sounds like you are out of the loop with the barn and a bit isolated there. That can happen when there is one person with a lead and feed or mostly retired horse they don’t visit daily, and everyone else is riding in a discipline. It’s good you are reaching out.

1 Like
#36

Ok I went back to look up OPs other posts. Only other started topic was in February asking advice on euthanizing this horse because he has suspensory dermatitis and also stating that he is unrideable and too much for OP to handle on the ground.

The last post OP said they would discuss this with the vet.

OP how did that conversation go?

”‹”‹”‹”‹”‹”‹

2 Likes
#37

Ok I don’t know if this has been addressed… however, please go get seen by a doctor. You may “feel fine” but you got kicked in the thoracic area and it is important to get that checked out if you haven’t already.

#38

If that’s the case, and he’s older, I would put him to sleep. He is a danger to himself and those handling him. His bad behavior is escalating, he has already hurt you, it’s only a matter of time before he hurts you or someone else even worse because you can’t control him. I’m not trying to belittle you in the least OP, we all have limitations and there is no shame in that. Euthanasia is better than letting him continue to take advantage and worsen dangerous habits. Horses don’t think about tomorrow. They live in the present. They want what they want when they want it and if there is no “boss mare” to say NO, it’s not going to get better.

#39

del

#40

OP, IMO maybe you can work through this. Your horse sounds like a slightly pushy type. This time of year, some of them can get a little “up.” The kick sounds more like he spooked and got you. Please try to find someone who can help teach you and horse proper leading techniques. It does take some experience! You and helper could always start by working on leading in a round pen or riding ring, you both may feel calmer there. Good luck.

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