young blind canadian allowed to compete?

[fanfayre]

I’m pretty sure her coach IS one of our at-the-moment BiggestNR! At least, Kyra had requested to stable with people who DO train with that BNR, so would expect her to be one of the BNT’ students…

And @Jealoushe it’s not even Pre-entry- it’s a level below, and Island-22 runs Starter at the beginning of the day, before any of the other divisions so daylight is not a factor. Even if Starter was run at the end of the day Starter would be no later than 3:30 or 4:00 because the event is run over 3 days, so it’s pretty quick to run only 100 horses (at most) through

[Synthesis]

@Marigold

This is really the crux of it for me. I admit to being somewhat on team “that seems risky” until I was informed that the rules as they are currently written have clear delineations by level of sport license (Bronze applies to competitors at Novice and below). Am I comfortable with someone who requires a guide horse galloping around the 4* at Bromont? Honestly, not really. But am I comfortable with someone who requires a guide horse jumping around a Novice? Yes, pending approval from people more informed than me (her doctor, her coach). It is reasonable to expect most (guide) horses to be able to keep up with the competitor, there is significant open space to allow for everyone out on course at once (unlike a roped course or one with many complex combinations), most jumps are single fences, and they are low enough that an error is generally quite forgivable.

The current rules do not require EC to hold this rider to the compensating aids that a 4* rider must adhere to. They are well within the rules to approve her now, but point out that this approval ends upwards of Bronze level competitions. I doubt most people (the rider included, from the sounds of it) would have a problem with that. I don’t really get why they have chosen this way forward…

And yet EC is inserting themselves to approve/reject and inform competitions/organizations that they are not to let a disabled rider compete. Even though the current public rules and process does not provide authority for that.

[Jealoushe]

@Synthesis

But she’s allowed to run XC without the guide horse! That’s the thing and why the safety reason is bogus.

EC is all bogus IMO lol

[Ibex]

@Jealoushe

Unrated shows - EC won’t allow places that have rated events to host unrated events. It is one of the biggest hurdles for growing our sport in Canada.

I don’t know, I think eventing is too dangerous if you can’t see. Often times the Pre Entry division runs when the sun is setting here, it would really really dangerous if you didn’t have good vision. Our Pre Entry is also bigger and harder than the US starter level.

It sucks, but I think in the name of safety the reasons are legit.

In her case I don’t have an issue. There are a couple of articles that explain it - it’s something to do with how her eyes interact with sunlight. She can navigate the over the little jumps no problem, it’s finding them in the first place. Hence the guide horse to the fence. This is local and I’ve heard reports that she’s an excellent young rider (haven’t seen her go myself).

A friend has a similar issue and is an ex-pony clubber and para athlete (XC skiing) who uses a similar type of guide. It’s not a random choice, it’s just EC sticking their nose into the baby levels instead of leaving decisions to people on the ground who can review the situation first hand. :mad:

[Jealoushe]

@Ibex

In her case I don’t have an issue. There are a couple of articles that explain it - it’s something to do with how her eyes interact with sunlight. She can navigate the over the little jumps no problem, it’s finding them in the first place. Hence the guide horse to the fence. This is local and I’ve heard reports that she’s an excellent young rider (haven’t seen her go myself).

A friend has a similar issue and is an ex-pony clubber and para athlete (XC skiing) who uses a similar type of guide. It’s not a random choice, it’s just EC sticking their nose into the baby levels instead of leaving decisions to people on the ground who can review the situation first hand. :mad:

The people on the ground aren’t any better in my experience. Glad to hear she is capable.

[Ibex]

@Jealoushe

The people on the ground aren’t any better in my experience. Glad to hear she is capable.

From what I hear she can ride circles around her age group and THAT’S what has gotten people’s panties in a knot. :no:

[Toblersmom]

I think the safety of it depends greatly on how much of a point-and-shoot jumper the horse is. The safety of many of the para dressage athletes is very dependent on their horse’s temperament and training, too. Sounds like this rider has a degree of vision impairment similar to my first serious boyfriend. He could see, and judge distance from, big things well enough (with cokebottle glasses) to do most day to day navigation through life in familiar areas, including things like crossing streets, but couldn’t read street signs (or anything else unless his nose was literally touching the paper or he was in the front row of a class and using binoculars to see the blackboard). If he’d had an interest I think he could have done well enough, safely enough, if he had a good horse that didn’t need a lot of micromanagement to the jumps, if he had a little help staying on the course (I don’t think he would be able to see things like little poles and ribbons or small landmarks to see where to turn at any sort of speed).

[Marigold]

@Synthesis

And yet EC is inserting themselves to approve/reject and inform competitions/organizations that they are not to let a disabled rider compete. Even though the current public rules and process does not provide authority for that.

Exactly. If/when it comes time to involve EC (if she tries to run Silver or above) then maybe it’s a different conversation, but for now, bugger off and let the kid love eventing!

[BayBondGirl]

I almost started a thread on this myself, as she is local to me and I’ve been following it closely since we competed at the same event at Campbell Valley (albeit different divisions) the other weekend. She is an extremely competent young rider and, as per my friend who competed in Kyra’s division, won her second place very fairly.

It’s too bad that EC (and their sanctioned events) is being so sticky about this; I do understand that they need to have a rule “across the board” that would govern all riders in a similar situation and cannot define each individual rider with a different rule set, but I hope that this stimulates further review of the current regulations to move towards something more inclusive. At the very least, I should hope that she can at least compete hors concours.

@Synthesis, you aren’t Erica by any chance are you?

[fanfayre]

It’s also very interesting that this wasn’t a problem last year when she competed at Campbell Valley as a 9 year-old but didn’t have as good a go at it in the same division.

Actually, @Polydor, I think your title might need to be “… NOT allowed to compete”

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

I’m far from an authority, but just based upon what I’ve read on social media–although she is legally blind, she is still partially sighted. It’s important to remember in any discussion of a disability, that there’s often a very wide continuum. For example, someone might be legally blind, able to see well enough to use a computer with large font, be able to navigate a familiar area without additional assistance, but still need a cane or some other help in an unfamiliar area. So from what I understand it from a safety-based issue, it’s not like she’s riding an eventing course in total darkness just by feel, seeing as we might with our eyes closed.

Shame on the people who are preventing her to compete. For heaven’s sake, how many of us ride with less obvious assistive technology like contact lenses. Especially at the lower levels, isn’t this about just achieving one’s personal best?

[fanfayre]

^^ Makes me very glad I forgot to renew my EC license this year…

[SolarFlare]

@Jealoushe

Unrated shows - EC won’t allow places that have rated events to host unrated events. It is one of the biggest hurdles for growing our sport in Canada.

Just wanted to address this point as it can’t be officially true - Bronte Creek runs both OEA rated and SOCTA unrated shows. Apparently it IS a huge PITA with EC but it can be done (for now, anyway!)

[Daventry]

@Jealoushe

Unrated shows - EC won’t allow places that have rated events to host unrated events. It is one of the biggest hurdles for growing our sport in Canada…

This is incorrect. I know several facilities that run both EC rated shows and non-EC rated shows on different weekends. EC has no authority to dictate whether a facility holds non-EC rated show or not.

[Synthesis]

@BayBondGirl

I almost started a thread on this myself, as she is local to me and I’ve been following it closely since we competed at the same event at Campbell Valley (albeit different divisions) the other weekend. She is an extremely competent young rider and, as per my friend who competed in Kyra’s division, won her second place very fairly.

It’s too bad that EC (and their sanctioned events) is being so sticky about this; I do understand that they need to have a rule “across the board” that would govern all riders in a similar situation and cannot define each individual rider with a different rule set, but I hope that this stimulates further review of the current regulations to move towards something more inclusive. At the very least, I should hope that she can at least compete hors concours.

@Synthesis, you aren’t Erica by any chance are you?

Yup, that’s me. 😊

[FlaxenChestnut]

How disappointing that a fellow competitor lodged the protest, and that EC ruled against her being allowed to compete as a result. I think this rider should be allowed to compete at the level she is capable of completing safely with the aids she needs. IMHO, her bravery, skill and willingness to tackle a challenging sport should be encouraged.
(Now, if there was a legitimate safety concern or the aids provided an unfair advantage, my position would be different. But that doesn’t seem to be the case.)

[Jealoushe]

@Ibex

From what I hear she can ride circles around her age group and THAT’S what has gotten people’s panties in a knot. :no:

Dissapointing but not surprising.

Sorry about my EC post - so maybe they allow them to run unsanctioned but they make your life hell if you want to. We couldn’t even hang a banner for the OEA at our schooling Short Course trying to promote it because EC gets their panties in a knot.

[Synthesis]

@Jealoushe

Dissapointing but not surprising.

Sorry about my EC post - so maybe they allow them to run unsanctioned but they make your life hell if you want to. We couldn’t even hang a banner for the OEA at our schooling Short Course trying to promote it because EC gets their panties in a knot.

Ugh, that sucks. Short course was an awesome option and I miss it.

[BayBondGirl]

@Synthesis

Yup, that’s me. 😊

I had a feeling after reading your posts on the EC FB page and then here… You are so concise and well-spoken! I appreciated your informative and respectful discourse greatly.

[Rambler]

Its been a while since I was an EC show secretary but I think a venue can hold whatever level of competition they want. Just not on the same weekend and mixing of EC/unrated classes was not allowed. It wasn’t fair that some people had to buy all the memberships and some didn’t to jump the same jumps and have the same judge. This was for dressage and eventing…not sure about H/J. I can see the issue of this from both sides and in this day and age its all about liability. If her coaches and parents accept the risk then that is fine, let her ride. However from a legal perspective, facility owners may be nervous about allowing a legally blind competitor to compete on their property when eventing is well documented as being dangerous. Organizers might not want to accept that liability. I really didn’t understand that aspect of hosting a show when I was first starting to volunteer, the organizers are liable and I was advised to get insurance. So I can understand why EC did what they did.