The vet may not realize that the Gold line has the same seaweed-derived calcium which is the active ingredient in Outlast. That’s why I suggested dropping it while you’re treating for ulcers
Keep in mind the studies only show correlation, not causation. For all we know, cribbing - or the stress that’s causing it - is causing Se to be used faster than normal. Good start with blood work and go from there, based on how long he’s been on the current diet. Se levels change slowly with dietary changes, barring suddenly getting 15mg a day or something off the wall like that, but it sounds like he’s been on this diet long enough for the blood reading to be pretty reliable.
I’d be a liiiiiittle hesitant to put this guy on a PPI like nexium without some hind gut support. @GPjumper have you ever tried him on something like Succeed or Equishure?
One more thing to consider throwing at the wall to see what sticks
He won’t touch the Equisure. It’s demonic poison from hell. The succeed he wasn’t a fan of, but I can certainly add it to his smartpaks and try again especially now that he has a healthy appetite.
I didn’t just say sell the horse. I said move, or sell the horse. That’s what I would do and as you so kindly brought up, that’s what I did do.
For anyone interested that has better things to do that cyber stalk me in their free time, my horse got attacked by A dog, (not dogs) and you’re damn right I moved. I really don’t get why you’re trying to bring that up to shame me. That facility was no longer healthy for my animal so I left… as did every other boarder at the place.
If I was in that situation again and for some reason could not move because there were no other available boarding arrangements, I would have sold my horse rather than put her in an unhealthy situation. That’s what I would do and what I feel is the responsible choice. Maybe there are some of you who feel differently and are insecure about that and that’s why you feel the need to be COTH bullies.
If you are serious about helping people learn to manage their horse’s better why is your first (and only) line to move out or sell the horse? There are a lot of in betweens that you seem unwilling to acknowledge.
In this case, you could say something helpful, like “does your barn offer pasture board? That may help with the stall vices.”
Not to make this thread about something it’s not…If the horse’s stomach scopes clean, you may consider treating for hindgut ulcers anyway. Also, if it’s possible, changing the type of hay to see if that makes and difference and/or try alfalfa pellets.
Move barns? Move living arrangements? Neither are as easy as you make it seem. I’m glad you found a move situation that worked for you. Not everyone has options without moving living situations.
Regardless, you seem to have a vision that everyone MUST have their young horses turned out full time with appropriate turnout buddies, or don’t have a young horse, no middle ground is acceptable to you
I am pretty sure I can speak for Simkie, but neither she nor I have time to cyber-stalk anyone. We can’t help it if you show up on threads we are interested in and read, and both Simkie and I tend to be regulars in these kinds of threads.
@No1 is right - you never offer up any solutions to try to make a given situation better. You only tell them to move the horse or sell him. I could see that if these multiple situations lately were SO bad the horse’s immediate welfare was in danger, but they aren’t, they just aren’t situations up to your very high standards.
So, if the top door is closed, he still has an opening elsewhere to access the run, yes? If so, then I’d just keep him closed in as he continues to figure life out. Will he eat hay off the ground with the door closed? Would he eat out in his run?
Outlast is overkill on top of a full feeding of the Gold feed. It’s got the same stuff in it. You said he scoped clean. I assume that was recently? Then ulcers are not the cause of the behavior. I wouldn’t put him on a PPI just because. Maybe support the GI with some additional omega 3s.
Does he like toys? Sometimes big dog toys work for those that don’t like playing with balls. Maybe help him come out of his shell a little?
Highly recommend the Succeed challenge, if you want to give it another go. Order it from them, complete a little weekly journal thing, and if it doesn’t help they give you your money back!
I went through it when one of mine was struggling with cow patty poops. Didn’t help, submitted the details, and had no issue with the refund. That it didn’t work wasn’t anything to do with the product–we figured out later that she had a different problem that Succeed wasn’t going to ever solve.
But it was really a great experience, and I wouldn’t hesitate to use it again if I thought I had another it could help. And money back guarantee sure is nice
(Funny, I also tried Rite Trac on that mare–she thought it was demonic poison from hell, too And she usually eats ANYTHING!)
Top door to the aisle is closed. (It’s a stall gate so he can still see through. The back doors are open to the run. He doesn’t spend much time outside if the top door is closed. If the top door is open he is pacing between outside and looking over the door. He scoped clean in June a month after surgery (cryptorchid). Our ulcer protocol is omeprazole and sucralfate. Sucralfate 20 minutes before meals and at night check. Omeprazole at lunch so as not to mix the too. His succeed test last month came back clean. The ironic part, is that today where the temps dropped and it got super windy (we’re in central Virginia) he was begging to come in early to get out of the wind.
In his stall, he has a mirror, a hanging jolly ball, a wiggly giggly ball and some ropes that hang to chew on. He can see the TV (for my other stall walker who’s evening entertainment is elf) but doesn’t seem to watch it much.
My sensitive snowflake that I mentioned re: hay eating hated the wind. Hated it. Sometimes when the strong afternoon winds would pop up, I would have to back him to the barn from his paddock because the direction of the barn was west (into the wind), and he refused to face the wind. Otherwise, it was constantly leaping in the air and spinning. And he hated being cold. And he was from Canada!
I’d probably start with just blanketing him more, even if just a waterproof sheet to break the wind. But something like PSSM wouldn’t be unusual in a TB. Even in the stall if he tends to be cold since it’s open to the outside. Maybe he would spend more time out there if he was toastier?
I never said moving was easy. If moving was easy more people would probably do that but supplementing as a replacement for management is easier so that’s what people tend to do.
Yes, I believe for young horses mentally and physically they should be able to be a horse and not be locked in a box for most of their life. I’m sorry that seems to be such a radical idea… it really shouldn’t be. Especially when we’re talking about a horse that is 2 and is already having vices.
I also believe that supplementing will not replace adequate management and so that’s why I don’t believe it makes sense to “offer about alternative solutions” when management is clearly, IMO, the issue.
I’m going to remove myself from this thread because I just don’t have the energy to be the target of COTH nastiness today especially after that low blow about the dog trauma from @Simkie.
OP, my advice remains the same. I would move this horse to a different arrangement or I would sell it because there is no supplement that will make up for holes in management. Good luck.
He’s actually on the upswing. I pulled him from the kill pen in November of last year. I left him in Texas to quarantine until April because I didn’t want to have him adjust to the drastic temperature difference between here and there in January. He LOVES his blankets. He was in a sheet today and due to temperatures, I was going to move him to a mid weight tonight. It’s honestly not the cold, he’s has a tendency to get warm and unhappy in the blankets. He just HATES wind. He hated it all summer too. When the wind kicks up he turns his butt to it and bucks as the gusts.
He’s actually the reason I built the run outs. When he first came, he was terrified of a stall so I figured the run out would give him an option and he could come inside for food and water so he could learn that the stall wasn’t terrible on his own terms. It has actually worked and he prefers to be inside the stall, he just likes to look outside like the grandma from her apartment window.
Clearly, you haven’t been reading my responses. This isn’t a train station. There is no need to announce your departure. You made A LOT of assumptions without bothering to ask a single question. You actually haven’t even bothered to address any of the new information so your presence is probably best elsewhere.
Dude, the whole point was that it takes TIME to make change. It took you TIME to move your horse, no? You couldn’t haul her off the property the very instant you found out that she’d been attacked. And that is not unreasonable.
It’s even more “not unreasonable” for @GPjumper to take some TIME to figure out how to help her horse here, rather than just throwing in the towel and calling it impossible and selling him because she can’t align to your One True Way of keeping young horses
No one is being nasty to you here, but you’re sure being nasty to others.
Are you in a location where the grass is still decent? Or if not that great quality, is it still growing in? If he’s eating lots of grass during the day, it’s totally possible that he’s just full. This is maybe more common in the spring/summer when the grass is really lush, but who knows?
If he eats more hay when the door is closed then you are contradicting what you said in your first post because he can’t eat hay hanging in a net outside the door if it is closed??
I tried closing the door the evening after I posted the original question. By the next morning I had had my answer. He cleaned out his haynet for the first time ever.
