Personally, with all the weirdness that goes on these days, I would be glad my horse was anonymous.
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Yeah, I can absolutely understand your point about wanting credit, but I think there’s a good chance she’s just trying to keep you & your horse anonymous for the reasons above. I don’t sell my horse photos, just post them here and there, but dealing with privacy issues on the internet is always a little tricky & there aren’t any real guidelines out there. I think a lot of artists will tend to err on the side of caution.
This is my DH’s guy:
http://www.zazzle.com/appaloosa_horse_greeting_cards-137687917799456597
When we were looking at him, after we’d test ridden him a few times and were thinking about making an offer, I got a bit of Appaloosa fever and went looking for fun merchandise. I saw this on Zazzle and was struck by how much it looked like the horse we were vetting. I couldn’t decide for sure if it was “our” horse – I actually was trying to compare photos I had of our horse to be and this image – imagine counting an Appaloosa’s spots! lol – and I finally decided no way could it be our prospect, just because it seemed too outlandish a coincidence.
Then we went in the owner/breeder’s living room to negotiate and there on the wall was the original of this picture – I told them about finding him on Zazzle and I don’t think they were really convinced – until I showed up wearing a shirt with this pic on it!
They used one of those artists to whom you mail a photo and the artist produces a painting from it. Obviously the contract included some “rights to use this image” provisions.
I have a friend who is a successful equine photographer and has won several contests with photos of one of my horses …lshe has given me prints, consulted me on titles for the photos and thanked me and the horse on her website. Better manners?
[QUOTE=The Pie;8859224]
Okay, so I have a riding buddy who is a fairly talented artist/photographer.
Given that my horse is a palomino, he’s quite photogenic. She has asked me if she could use him as a subject for paintings/photos. Which I happily agreed to.
Over the last 2 years she has taken some stunning photos of him. One she used to do an oil painting.
She is selling these prints online and I am truly happy that she is selling his image. Seriously happy that she is making a go of it, with her online business. And would never expect any kickback from the money she is making.
Here is my issue. She tags him with all kinds of names, like golden sun, golden pony … Etc. Whenever she posts these images on her website or FB, she never identifies him by his show name. I always “like” what she posts, and often will comment with his show name or make some comment like "what a beautiful subject she has used.
She has often thanked various people who have helped her along the way (pointed her to a good company that replicates originals, etc).
Not once has she identified my beautiful boy as the subject, or thanked me for allowing her to use him. Also, I have never received a print of any of the pictures. Once I mentioned that I’d sent a copy of one of her pics to a local tv station that was wanting pictures of palominos, and her immediate reaction was “I’ve copyrighted that, if anything comes of it, I should get the money”. Which had never entered my mind, I was just proudly submitting a photo of my boy, of course if anything had come out of it financially, I would have ensured the money went her way and she would have received full credit.
So, am I being a bitch? Should I talk to her about this and tell her how I feel?
Would you be annoyed?[/QUOTE]
I have allowed my horses to be used as models for photos and artwork, and I have never charged money or asked for anything and I understand that I have no rights whatsoever regarding the resulting photos/artwork. From my perspective, I enjoy the process, enjoy supporting artists (who generally make very little from their work), and I enjoy seeing the finished product. If I really liked a piece after it was completed, I might buy it–but I would not expect to be handed any photos, prints or other artwork.
If a shoot required a lot of preparation or time, I think it would be fair to charge for your time. No artist is going to pay any horse owner “handsomely for the privilege” of photographing their horse. Most artists don’t have that kind of money and are also aware that there are plenty of other horses out there.
It was very nice of your allow the artist/photographer to use your horse, but if you wanted something more specific from the deal, I think you should have said so up front. It would have been perfectly reasonable to request up front that the artist use the horse’s name in the title of any resulting artwork/prints or give him credit as being the model, and then she would have been free to choose another subject if she felt that that didn’t work for her.
To clarify, I don’t think it is fair to expect to use her work to promote your horse–either by putting his name in the title or by identifying him by name anytime she displays the piece–unless that was discussed and agreed upon ahead of time. Once an artist or photographer creates an image, it is 100% their property and you can’t “borrow back” that image in any manner even if it is your horse. I’m certain you were well intentioned, but it was wrong of you to share her pictures with the TV station without her express permission. Those images are her property to share/sell–or not share/sell–as she sees fit.
FWIW, it’s pretty normal for equine artists to not use a horse’s name in the title unless the portrait is commissioned (and paid for) by the owner or unless the horse in question is a famous horse. Also, a lot of horse owners, myself included, are fairly protective of their privacy and might be offended if identifying information were shared.
All those things having been said, I think it is a real shame she didn’t thank you more meaningfully. It sounds like a few words of gratitude and perhaps a token photograph or print would have meant a lot to you.
Also, I think it’s a shame she didn’t explain to you (tactfully) up front more what to expect before you agreed. It’s natural that you feel a connection with her work when your beloved horse is the subject.
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Totally aside from any questions of who should profit (which apparently is not an issue here) it seems to me it would have been nice to have been given a gift of a print or two as a ‘thank you’.
I have had similar happen to me: family of riding students who ask to take pic’s so a family member can render a painting. Not once have I even been shown the photos, let alone the art works. One of them (a professional artist) went on to produce greeting cards featuring the painting of my pony, for sale in their shop and elsewhere. Same idea; it would have been nice to have been given a set as a ‘thank you’. I do not expect or demand any payment. Though most often my understanding at the time is that it is a family/private undertaking.
I do think it comes down to manners. If a neighbour gives me a basket of apples from their tree, I gift them a pie or apple bread out of it. It is a bit odd to have random people tell you in conversation that they have seen paintings of your horses on display (which they recognised, not identified at all) that you have never seen.
I think it is rude of her not to have given you digital images of the photos or prints, but I wouldn’t have expected the horse to be named in the images she’s selling to the public. Does she still photograph him? If so, I would ask for some images and/or prints from here forward. You need a contract.
I look at it like this, yes the prints/artwork/etc are the property of the artist once they are created. However, where would that artist be without the horse to use as a model?
As the very least, it would be a kind gesture for the artist to provide prints or related gift to the horse owner. If they don’t I would consider it rude, even cheap.
If by definition of “manners” we mean “passive aggressively resenting not being given something we fully expect but haven’t asked for”, then sure, this is a manners issue. JUST ASK. How nice a conversation it could have been-- Gosh, Sally, I just love the painting you did of Pony and it would be a fun memento of the photo shoot we did together. I only have the watermarked version- could you give me a print that I can put in a frame? (Though if you were sending pictures to a TV station without her copyright info, then surely you already have a version without the watermark?)
Except now the relationship is fraught with unmet and unsaid expectations, resentment, etc. so the conversation is suddenly hard.
Just ask for what you want, and do not offer what you are not happy to give. It’s just not that hard.
And no, you should not have sent her copyrighted photo to the TV station.
