Really? If you are comparing commercial grass to commercial grain it may be so.
If I’ve got two steers on my own pasture in the Northeast and I finish one with corn I’ve automatically raised the carbon footprint on one steer.
[QUOTE=SmartAlex;7701302]
Really? If you are comparing commercial grass to commercial grain it may be so.
If I’ve got two steers on my own pasture in the Northeast and I finish one with corn I’ve automatically raised the carbon footprint on one steer.[/QUOTE]
No, your grain finished steer will be larger and of better grade much faster.
It will take your grass finished much longer to get to that weight and if you aim for the same weight, grass finished may take two years to get there.
By then the age factor will kick in and it will be considered the lowest of beef quality, way too tough for much other than hamburger.
Read the articles out there on why that is and you will see all that went into figuring that.
[QUOTE=Bluey;7701314]
No, your grain finished steer will be larger and of better grade much faster.
It will take your grass finished much longer to get to that weight and if you aim for the same weight, grass finished may take two years to get there.[/QUOTE]
OK. I see what you’re saying. My step father does cull his cows based on how well their calves finish on grass. Some breeds do better than others and then there is also an individual factor.
[QUOTE=SmartAlex;7701409]
OK. I see what you’re saying. My step father does cull his cows based on how well their calves finish on grass. Some breeds do better than others and then there is also an individual factor.[/QUOTE]
There are all kinds of way to manage beef herds.
No one is better than other on principle, because each one is best for what it’s environment, type of cattle and goal the producer aims for.
Now, when talking about in general, that we started feeding grain commercially to cattle in the late 1960’s is what made the difference in being able, with half the cattle, raise the same amount of products and of the best quality we get today from cattle.
That efficiency alone has cut the carbon footprint, even after adding all that entails, the extra grain production and handling to a grain finished critter being 1/3 more efficient and having a smaller carbon footprint, lb to lb, considering the same amount of produce.
That doesn’t mean that for some producers and some markets, grass finished is not fine.
It really takes all to feed this world.
My in-laws raise beef (well, they do milk cows–Jerseys-- and eat the boy calves). They are strictly grass and hay fed.
Biggest difference we’ve found has been in the butcher and how long the meat is “hung.” MIL doesn’t like it “hung” the normal length of time so some of the steaks are tougher. But the flavor is phenomenal. If we were to get our own cow, we’d just ask our meat person to hang it the normal amount.
Ground has been fine. All that said, we prefer the pork raised by the in-laws and have foregone beef for pork in the bulk of our diet.
I only buy grass fed beef…and I prefer it. I believe there are new studies (not paid for by the big industrial beef companies) that show grass fed does indeed have a lower carbon imprint. Of course any kind of beef has a much larger carbon footprint than say poultry on a pound for pound basis.
The best steer we ever had was on pure grass until the week before we had to pull him off the pasture-we fed him finisher for a week before his appointment with the butcher and he was so dang good we all still talk about him! He was mean… he was attacking the irrigators and we had to pull him off the pasture in a hurry… but man he was good!
Worst most horrible nasty beef we have had on two occasions was finished with corn. The fat was yellow and it was just rancid tasting… nasty.
I would consider a steer that was all grass fed until the bitter end and finished with barley or some sort of finisher but honestly I shy away from too much grain at the end.
Caveat- the pasture ours was on was as lush as can be; irrigated alfalfa grass pasture, all you can eat. PRIMO pasture. I would never consider it if it was a high rangy sagebrush grass.
Good info - thank you all for the valuable input. We’ll be testing some grass fed burgers this weekend and then making the decision.
I think taste highly depends on WHAT they are eating. I remember a coworker saying they butchered one of their Angus that was just grass fed and the meat tasted like onions. Guess what was in the pasture, lots of onion grass!
[QUOTE=cowboymom;7701508]
The best steer we ever had was on pure grass until the week before we had to pull him off the pasture-we fed him finisher for a week before his appointment with the butcher and he was so dang good we all still talk about him! He was mean… he was attacking the irrigators and we had to pull him off the pasture in a hurry… but man he was good!
Worst most horrible nasty beef we have had on two occasions was finished with corn. The fat was yellow and it was just rancid tasting… nasty.
I would consider a steer that was all grass fed until the bitter end and finished with barley or some sort of finisher but honestly I shy away from too much grain at the end.
Caveat- the pasture ours was on was as lush as can be; irrigated alfalfa grass pasture, all you can eat. PRIMO pasture. I would never consider it if it was a high rangy sagebrush grass.[/QUOTE]
You know, if the supposedly grain fed steer had yellow fat, that means it was not on a real grain ration, as that turns the fat white and much less of a strong taste to it.
You can get good and bad beef from any one way it is produced, of course that is so, there is more than what you feed to what you end up with, but white, not yellow fat is a marker for properly grain fed beef.
That the fat is yellow in grass fed beef is because of it having more of what grass fed marketers want to insist is better for you, forgetting that the amount, while turning the fat yellow, is not in sufficient volume to be nutritionally different than what you have in grain fed.
Here is more on this power point about grass and grain finished beef and no, you don’t have to download to read it:
http://www.academia.edu/1720592/The_Environmental_Impact_of_Grain-fed_vs._Grass-fed_Beef
What everyone should realize is that all beef is generally raised on grass most of it’s life and that which is grain fed to finish is only for the last, ideally, 90 to 150 days, a small part of that life and that is young steers and heifers not kept for replacement to be cows and produce calves.
THis graph from that link shows it clearly:
http://htmlimg2.scribdassets.com/1t4eozuojk1kipd1/images/12-8a4e333c17.jpg
Well, not so clearly, the writing is not coming thru with the picture, you will have to scroll to it for how to interpret it.
Found a better explanation why grass fed fat is yellow, compared with white for grain fed:
I agree with Bluey that there is a HUGE misconception in the general public of how “commercial feedlot” beef is raised. It is grass fed for most of it’s life… And meat labeled “grass fed” in the grocery store CAN still be grain fed along with that grass. “Grass finished” however, is supposed to be grass-only up to slaughter. But again, it is all dependent on the honesty of the producer, and I DO know of beef producers who will represent their beef as “grass whatever” in order to get a higher price for it, when it was actually a traditional CAFO animal. The only way for the consumer to really know how it’s beef was raised is to buy it locally, from the owner that raised it, before it is slaughtered.
My family and my husband’s family have raised cattle for generations - cow/calf operations and we hold back what we want to fatten for ourselves and a handful of private “freezer beef” sales. We have, on occasion, had to slaughter steers fresh from pasture, that had not been “grain finished”. They SUCKED! Meat was tough and rangy tasting, and they had been on good pasture. But EVERY steer we have finished with grain (typically home-grown milo and sileage, not corn, not commercially available bagged feeds) have been AMAZING. The steer we are currently fattening has amazing pasture 24/7 but still stands at the fence twice a day, bawling for his bucket of Amish milled “Beef 13” which is basically COB w/molasses. We’ll find out in December what he tastes like - he is the first one we have fattened with COB.
It really boils down to personal TASTE preference. It is very frustrating to producers, though, to see the propaganda and misinformation being spread like wildfire via the internet that “grass” is the only way to go. It is just that, propaganda, just like anything “organic”. Your decision of grass vs. grain shouldn’t be based on someone saying that one or the other is “raised” better, more ethically, etc.
[QUOTE=RobinL;7701883]
I think taste highly depends on WHAT they are eating. I remember a coworker saying they butchered one of their Angus that was just grass fed and the meat tasted like onions. Guess what was in the pasture, lots of onion grass![/QUOTE]
YES. The slaughter guy said if you’ve got wild onions in your field get them off it immediately or the meat will taste like onions.
[QUOTE=moving to dc;7702175]
I agree with Bluey that there is a HUGE misconception in the general public of how “commercial feedlot” beef is raised. It is grass fed for most of it’s life… And meat labeled “grass fed” in the grocery store CAN still be grain fed along with that grass. “Grass finished” however, is supposed to be grass-only up to slaughter. But again, it is all dependent on the honesty of the producer, and I DO know of beef producers who will represent their beef as “grass whatever” in order to get a higher price for it, when it was actually a traditional CAFO animal. The only way for the consumer to really know how it’s beef was raised is to buy it locally, from the owner that raised it, before it is slaughtered.
My family and my husband’s family have raised cattle for generations - cow/calf operations and we hold back what we want to fatten for ourselves and a handful of private “freezer beef” sales. We have, on occasion, had to slaughter steers fresh from pasture, that had not been “grain finished”. They SUCKED! Meat was tough and rangy tasting, and they had been on good pasture. But EVERY steer we have finished with grain (typically home-grown milo and sileage, not corn, not commercially available bagged feeds) have been AMAZING. The steer we are currently fattening has amazing pasture 24/7 but still stands at the fence twice a day, bawling for his bucket of Amish milled “Beef 13” which is basically COB w/molasses. We’ll find out in December what he tastes like - he is the first one we have fattened with COB.
It really boils down to personal TASTE preference. It is very frustrating to producers, though, to see the propaganda and misinformation being spread like wildfire via the internet that “grass” is the only way to go. It is just that, propaganda, just like anything “organic”. Your decision of grass vs. grain shouldn’t be based on someone saying that one or the other is “raised” better, more ethically, etc.[/QUOTE]
I’ve perused a few cattle magazines since getting these cows. The antibiotics and hormones being sold to pump into commercial beef is what horrifies me. I don’t have any beef (heh, heh) with corn fed vs. grass, but I had heard that the flavor of the grass fed was better. It’s good to see the differing opinions. There was nothing altruistic about grass feeding these- we have 12 acres of grass that the horses aren’t turned out on, so we thought- why not cows?
I have transitioned over to only humanely treated (based on my own set of standards), grass fed/pasture raised meats and I will never go back. They do taste better to me. Keep in mind that “grass fed” from the grocery store doesn’t mean much if you don’t know the practices of the farm it came from. That is true of Whole Foods, too. All beef cattle are typically grass fed first part of their life so the label is not always the whole truth.
Eat Wild should have links to places local to you, and my farmer’s market is booming with all kinds of great meats this summer from several farms in the area.
I’ll agree that there is more variation in taste and texture with 100% grass fed than grain finished but I’ve never been disappointed. Well, the pre-formed burgers for lazy slobs aren’t the best but neither were the ones I used to buy at the grocery store. :lol: My suggestion is that you find people who have been doing this a while, try their product and latch to their methods. If it turns out you add corn and molasses for a couple weeks to get the flavor you want, the cows still had a great life and you’ll have a freezer full of quality beef.
[QUOTE=TBROCKS;7702229]
I’ve perused a few cattle magazines since getting these cows. The antibiotics and hormones being sold to pump into commercial beef is what horrifies me. [/QUOTE]
There are definitely lots of ads for abx and implants for cattle. But one thing you can’t tell just by reading the ad is the rate of administration. It is TINY. Teeny tiny amounts of hormones to promote gain, less than most human daily replacement hormone dosages.
Owners of large # of cattle need abx, and knowledge of how to treat/administer meds. It is no different than if someone owned - managed several hundred head of horses. Illnesses come up. The only difference is that cattle are generally a terminal animal - they will be entering the food chain at some point, for most, it is before they are 2 years old. So the approach to treating them and raising them is different than a “pleasure” animal like a horse. We are bombarded with ads for items to make owning horses easier and more profitable - supplements, feeds, training aids/physical support…
Don’t get upset when you see the abx ads for cattle - they are a necessity - just like the ads for Smartpak, Dover, Triple Crown, etc.
I am really bad at explaining how modern CAFO cattle are handled, and how to de-bunk a lot of the “fears” floating around out there. These guys do it a lot better…http://www.petersonfarmbros.com/index2.php#!/HOME Their blog is a great source of the truth about family owned CAFO cattle operations.
[QUOTE=CrazyGuineaPigLady;7702396]
I have transitioned over to only humanely treated (based on my own set of standards), grass fed/pasture raised meats and I will never go back. They do taste better to me. Keep in mind that “grass fed” from the grocery store doesn’t mean much if you don’t know the practices of the farm it came from. That is true of Whole Foods, too. All beef cattle are typically grass fed first part of their life so the label is not always the whole truth.
Eat Wild should have links to places local to you, and my farmer’s market is booming with all kinds of great meats this summer from several farms in the area.
I’ll agree that there is more variation in taste and texture with 100% grass fed than grain finished but I’ve never been disappointed. Well, the pre-formed burgers for lazy slobs aren’t the best but neither were the ones I used to buy at the grocery store. :lol: My suggestion is that you find people who have been doing this a while, try their product and latch to their methods. If it turns out you add corn and molasses for a couple weeks to get the flavor you want, the cows still had a great life and you’ll have a freezer full of quality beef.[/QUOTE]
Thank you for saying this and thanks for the link. I have gotten away from wanting to eat meat from animals forced to live in cruelty.
We’ve decided to go with corn and molasses to flavor the meat. No arguments from the cows, they seem to love it. C & M is what the meat processor suggested and his company is very well-respected. He said there’s lots of different formulations to finish beef, none of them are wrong, but the corn and molasses was the simplest thing for us to do, since we know pretty much nil about it.
I’m glad our cows will not need to go and be stressed out in a feed lot somewhere. They’ll stay on our farm until he comes out to slaughter them on the property. Hopefully it will be pretty peaceful for them. I haven’t decided if I want to be there or not.
Thank you moving to dc. I was a bit :eek: reading those publications!
I just wanted to add, there is really no such thing as corn fed beef. Beef cattle are finished on a ration that is scientifically formulated to meet there needs based on where they are in the finishing process. The ration could be composed of grain sorghum, corn, soybean or cottonseed meal, alfalfa, cotton seed hulls and other grains and fiber sources depending on availability and price.
Bluey is also right in that beef finished on grain has white fat and greater marbling than grass fed beef. Grass fed beef has yellowish fat. Frankly I think the whole “grass fed” thing is a marketing ploy and the people who claim they prefer grass fed beef either haven’t eaten good grain finished beef in a while so don’t know what they are missing or just don’t want to admit grain fed does taste better because of the supposed “benefits” of grass fed.
I had to chuckle at PhoenixFarm who said she preferred grass fed and left the marbling from grain fed beef on her plate. That’s pretty much impossible as marbling is interstitial fat between the muscle fibers of the meat and pretty much impossible to trim out. You can trim off the outer fat layers but not marbling.
Don’t judge grass fed vs grain finished by just a couple of burgers. Ground beef isn’t the best way to judge. Get steaks or a roast instead if you want to do a comparison.
Lastly, cattle in a well run feed lot aren’t treated cruelly. They are there for 3-6 months, get plenty to eat and drink, health care and have nothing to do but hang out and eat. Its not a bad life.
[QUOTE=moving to dc;7702175]
But EVERY steer we have finished with grain (typically home-grown milo and sileage, not corn, not commercially available bagged feeds) have been AMAZING. .[/QUOTE]
What kind of silage are you feeding if not corn silage? Do you mean haylage? Or are you folks ensiling something else?
[QUOTE=sascha;7702504]
What kind of silage are you feeding if not corn silage? Do you mean haylage? Or are you folks ensiling something else?[/QUOTE]
I’ve never paid attention to the seed bags or receipts, I just know we call it “sorghum” and it looks a lot like the milo we harvest with the combine. DH knows the brand/variety - I’ll have to ask him when he gets home.
We don’t do haylage. Hay is in round bales of prairie, alfalfa, or brome, which are placed out for the cattle to eat. No unrolling or chopping, either.
Location is central KS. We operate pretty much the same way as all our neighbors - no one I know does haylage there, and all corn is harvested as dent corn, and some local feedlots/producers do keep it all for feed.
