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14 year old Mare has begun stall kicking. Vet put her on ReguMate. Other Options?

My mare began stall kicking last year while being treated for lamintis/founder. She was never locked in her stall, but had access to her 30x20 paddock. She was prevented from going out into the dry lot and track system for a few months.

Coincident with the stall kicking commencing was a huge change in her diet, medications, and supplements, all with the intention of helping her through her acute laminitis crisis. She was put on a number of drugs and NSAIDs that she is no longer on. She was given injectable thyroid, which truly did save her life. She is no longer on that. She was put on large doses of magnesium chloride in solution, which she still is on. She also gets Vermont Blend, iodised salt, and vit E. And she was put on a very strict diet, which she is still on (got 100 lbs off her in 5 months and she still needs to lose another 50#)

The stall kicking began with a vengeance, accompanied by tons of very loud squealing and screaming that alarmed the entire neighborhood (one neighbor down the road came running with a gun, thinking my mare must be fighting off a mountain lion). She severely injured her left hind from the kicking and was 3 legged lame a few days, but got over it. She also punched through the steel siding of the barn exterior. I had to carefully examine her every day for injuries–there were plenty of cuts.

She has always been a defensive kicker around other horses–a behavior I managed to get to go extinct–and if she is irritated under saddle she’ll kick out and pin her ears–but she has never ever kicked her stall before in the ten years I’ve owned her. While I was trying to figure out what was going on, she pretty much smashed her stall to smithereens.

My hunch was that the thyroid injections had made her hyperthyroid, so I put her on ThyroL powder instead and started reducing the dose. When I got her down to about a teaspoon a day, the screaming fits ceased and the nonstop kicking stopped, but she would still do little squeals in the barn aisle and kick the air, and we would still find nails popping out of the wooden stall walls where she shook them loose with kicks.

I got her down to 1/4 tsp of ThyroL and the vet said it was okay to quit giving it to her, but the stall kicking persisted. He did a repro exam and found her ovaries to be perfectly normal for her age, and u/s showed nothing untoward. Rather than run a bunch of blood work that might be inconclusive, he prescribed a trial run of the generic version of ReguMate. In two days of 10ml/day the kicking stopped. We know because we screwed new boards over the old ones, and there were no indents. I left her on ReguMate for a week, then took her off to see if the behavior came back. She was off it only 2 days when the stall kicking resumed and she broke the new boards. So now she’s back on the ReguMate.

Does anyone see anything here that might account for this behavior? Normal repro exam, never did this before, but maybe the thyroid medication changed her hormonal balance? Could heavy mag chloride dosing cause this?

I do not want to keep her on ReguMate the rest of her life. She’s never been a mare that exhibited issues–in fact, I never can tell when she is in heat, it’s never changed her behavior. Could something else besides her hormones be the cause? And if it is her hormones, is there anything less expensive and less dangerous to handle that will help her?

She’s been back on her track for months, is back in regular ridden work, and is very comfortable under saddle. She is never confined and can leave her stall 24 hrs a day.

I know this is not what you asked for, but I am surprised you never treated/tested for ulcers in all that.

The change of diet/routine and all those meds seem like prime ulcer making territory.

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Maybe consider trying something like Evitex? I have used it on a mare who has very painful heat cycles and we went from “don’t touch me while I’m in heat and don’t even THINK about riding me” to just being a little more sensitive to touch while in heat.

I had used Regumate on her previously and felt I got basically the same result.

A more reasonably priced alternative without preservatives.

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I have solved every problematic case of “stall kicking” by putting the horse out with a copacetic herd mate. Stall kicking is a herd-insecurity behavior that is usually exacerbated by isolation and changes in management.

It’s not rocket science but a horse can’t kick a stall if they’re not being contained in one as their primary residence. I know you mentioned she has access to go out 24/7 but a 30x20 paddock without a herd does not a turnout make. A shared fence line is not a substitute for herd security.

In the short term, you can address the stall kicking by hanging matts just above shoulder level of the horse. It will protect the walls and dampen the noise. But do consider the possibility the horse is expressing unhappiness and insecurity. We do so much to make sure all their other needs are met, with amazing therapies, top quality hay and grain, vit/min supplements, but we overlook what they are at their basal level: herd animals that need herd mates to feel safe.

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This is so true. For years I thought being able to see other horses was all that they needed. But my own horses have clearly shown me that even standing right on the other side of a fence with each other is not even close to being with each other with no barrier.

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Oh, I did treat for ulcers. Forgot to mention that. Didn’t change anything. And she has no other ulcer-type symptoms–very quiet and willing under saddle, not girthy, etc.

Thank you. I will look for that. Is Evitex cheaper and safer than Regumate? And can you safely leave her on it indefinitely?

Beowulf,
She isn’t alone. She has her mini friend with her. She was only in the 30x20 paddock adjacent to his for a limited time, a year ago. She’s had access to the same space as the mini since last summer.

Is the squealing and kicking happening during feed time? What happens to the mini during this time? What is their shared turnout like?

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I am going to do mats until I’m sure this is resolved. What kind of mats, exactly, will work? Stall mats seem like they would be too heavy. And padded exercise mats–she would rip them to shreds. She’s very mouthy.

Beowulf,
Thanks for probing further. Squealing and kicking seems unrelated to feed time. The only connection to food that I’ve observed is that after she has finished her bowl of mash with her supplements in it, if her hay is not then forthcoming, she may squeal and kick. However, I notice that because I’m always in the barn at that time. I have heard her squeal and kick at random times while I am in my home office, which faces the barn.

The mini has his own stall adjacent to hers. They cannot get into each others’ stalls, but the stalls are open to a shared dry lot. It’s always been set up this way. I had to stop feeding them together on the track system because she was eating too much of the hay we put out there, so less for him, and it was interfering with her weight loss, which was critical to her recovery. But they have eaten separately in their respective stalls for years, as conditions warranted. If there is an ice storm out there, or if the track is icy, they were always fed in their separate stalls. And both of them like to sleep flat out in their stalls–like snoring, dead to the world sleeping–while they are separated, which indicates to me that they are not suffering from herd insecurity. They could sleep out in the sand in the dry lot, together, if they wanted, but they don’t.

I was pretty sure the kicking was due to her being pissed off about cutting her hay back so severely. She went from about 30# a day–free choice/ad lib–to being on 15#/day doled out in 5# increments every 8 hours. (she gets the hay in 1" hole hay nets). This hay restriction was non-negotiable–she was a BCS 8, with a huge cresty neck and fat pads. She’s now down to a BCS 5. The vet wants her to lose another 50#. And I don’t think she can ever go back to ad lib hay.

She seems to have gotten used to being fed weighed hay only at certain times, though I do make sure she has hay in her belly before we go to work.

I can’t give her more hay. And the ReguMate immediately stopped the stall kicking. Does that mean that the stall kicking was definitely a hormone problem? Or would this drug possibly mask some other issue that I haven’t discovered yet?

Thank you!

I don’t remember exactly how the costs compare, but I know that the Evitex was not more expensive than Regumate. One big factor on the Evitex is where you can get it from - I have to pay shipping and shipping a gallon of liquid is something like $25. So I usually buy at least two at a time because it’s not twice the shipping price.

I don’t view Regumate as being particularly unsafe, but I would still say Evitex is safer. And you could leave her on it indefinitely.

One note - if your horse ever develops PPID, there are some mentions in the literature of questions of how chasteberry may or may not affect the efficacy of pergolide. As far as I know, no studies have been done to test this. I have two older horses with PPID and out of caution I would never put them on chasteberry.

Another possible cause I considered was that maybe she’s getting a static electric shock from her blankets. She never wore blankets until this founder episode. However, she didn’t wear a blanket all summer, when she was squealing horribly, and recently we had a spate of warm days with no blanket and the behavior persisted.

Just mentioning this because I am trying to think of everything that has changed since the founder. A great deal has changed, of necessity.

Yes, stall mats. They are heavy. Best way to mount them is to take a 2x4 and screw it into the stall wall, a little higher than the mare’s chest height (the height is variable, based on how high the mare kicks - find her hoof prints and put the 2x4 about 4 inches above the highest hoof print). Then, screw the stall mats into the 2x4. There will be a “gap” between the wall and the stall mat, that is normal. That gap will act as a percussive deafening when the mare kicks. Some horses who kick, do so because they are able to express their displeasure noisily. I don’t want to anthromorphize and say they take pleasure out of it, but they kick because it’s loud and tells everyone in the vicinity they’re pissed off. I’ve managed to cut down on kicking doing this with horses that have to be stall bound for whatever reason (injury, etc).

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Very interesting. Last spring the vet was pretty sure she had PPID because her initial ACTH bloodwork was off the charts. (I did not agree–she was in severe pain when the blood was drawn, so I felt it couldn’t possibly be an accurate test–and later I was proved right, her ACTH has since tested normal twice. She does not have Cushings.) The vet prescribed Chasteberry to address the Cushings, rather than pergolide. And if Evitex is just Chasteberry, I can buy chasteberry bulk and it is definitely more economical to do that.

Also the endocrinology lab I was sending the bloodwork to–BET–told me that chasteberry is what they recommend for Cushings. (I started drawing blood myself for these tests, so that I could be certain stress would not be a factor in the results).

I was certain my horse was not PPID, despite any test results. Why? I know my horse, and I know quite a few Cushings horses. Because I got pushback from a different vet about this, I did a deep dive into researching PPID and how to test for it, and case studies, and peer reviewed articles. Lots of horses that are diagnosed with Cushings using a blood test turn out not to have it at all. Testing conditions matter.

I will look more closely at Evitex. Good to know it was as effective as Regumate for your mare.

Just highlighting this because this is the crux of my question. Thanks to all who are reading and have replied.

ReguMate can suppress expression of pain, as well as temper reactivity. That doesn’t mean it fixes the root of the problem, it just masks the expression of it. It tends to make horses more even keeled, but that is not always a positive thing in terms of trying to diagnose a mystery lameness.

I’m not a fan of it being used unless there is a clear reproductive issue. Too many people use it (and Depo) for behavioral problems that are really just horses expressing pain/unhappiness. Not a criticism of your vet or you - I understand why it was prescribed in your case.

The more you’ve explained your situation, it sounds like the kicking may be signaling frustration around poor meal delivery service and food restriction. Not sure there is a fix for that except firing the staff. :wink:

I sympathize with you. Having an air fern that has to live in a dry lot with restricted intake because of laminitis is not the most joyful experience of horse ownership.

:smile: