1st Cutting Hay Only for Fatties - This is a Given Right?

[ytr45]

Disclaimer: I don’t get my hay analyzed and my pony is healthy, just a super easy keeper who’s not getting any work now…

I just want to double check, that for easy keepers who tend to get fat (the ones who get muzzled on grass), they should always be fed any type of 1st cutting (timothy, orchard grass, brome) and not any type of second cutting hay.

I’m thinking mostly of frigid days and nights when I want the pony to have unlimited forage for the hindgut, but not the unlimited calories of 2nd cutting hay.

Is this always correct, or mostly correct? I have always gotten 2nd cutting in the past when the pony was in work and 1st cutting hay seemed to leave too much waste. But now I’m thinking I need to go back to 1st cutting.
thanks Coth community - I really appreciate you guys!

[McGurk]

You don’t mention what part of the world you’re in, so I don’t know what your growing conditions and hay are like.

However, where I am (central VA) there’s no hard and fast rules about the quality and content of 1st and 2nd cutting hay. It’s highly dependent on weather and when the hay was baled. This year, we got first cutting up early, and it’s soft, not very stemmy and lovely. 2nd cutting was late, poor and low yield. I questioned whether it was worth the cost of the diesel fuel to bale it.

If your were one of those people who believed second cutting hay is better and waited to buy hay, you’d be in a bad spot.

Again, don’t know where you are and what your growing conditions are like, but I’d recommend talking to the hay farmer about the calorie content of the hay OR find something like timothy hay.

[Obsidian_Fire]

No it is not a given. McGurk is right. There are many variables that go into how a certain cutting will “test out”. And truly, the only way to know is to test.

[ZuzusPetals]

“Fatties” made my day. I’m sorry. … Also, I’m in awe of some posters’ nutrition knowledge.

[JB]

You really do need to visually evaluate the hay to make any sort of decision. No, you can’t tell most things about the hay from looking at it, BUT, stemmier hay tends to be less palatable, therefore intake is often voluntarily reduced. It’s also likely to be lower usable calories, because of the higher lignin content. Soft leafy stuffy might be quite yummy, and could also be low in quality, so a horse might keep eating and eating in order to reach satiety, and develop a hay belly as a result. Or, just get fat.

There’s a lot of areas where Orchard 1st cutting is entirely unsuitable nutrition-wise for EMS horses, higher in calories, high in sugar and starch, but a 2nd cutting is absolutely perfect, a bit lower in calories, quite low in sugar/starch. And, there are other areas where it’s the opposite.

[OzarksRider]

I have two very easy keepers, and I don’t fret about whether I feed first or second cutting hay. I’m always just happy to find hay to buy, because you never know what the yield will be until it’s in the barn. However, I do always look for summer grass hay, and where I live that’s Bermuda or bluestem. I also like teff but it’s almost impossible to find. In a pinch I’d take mixed grass or orchard, but I avoid first cut fescue/clover and any alfalfa.

My horses are stalled at night. I always put out enough hay to last the night, and they never eat all of it. I think (but can’t prove) that, because they know they’ll always have hay available, they know they don’t have to stuff themselves and so only eat when they’re hungry. Whatever the reason, they maintain a consistent weight.

[2DogsFarm]

I mix both, but the bulk of my hay is 1st Cut OG.
My hayguys are neighbors & we barter hay for their storing loaded wagons in my indoor during haying season & over Winter.
I ask for 1st cut as nothing here needs different, or has in the 18yrs I’ve had horses at home (6 geldings total, but in pairs & now 3 w/the mini).

I’m currently mixing 1st & 2nd as they gave me 50 small squares of 2nd in late Summer. I let that sit until late Fall & am now mixing hays.

[BrownDerby]

@JB

There’s a lot of areas where Orchard 1st cutting is entirely unsuitable nutrition-wise for EMS horses, higher in calories, high in sugar and starch, but a 2nd cutting is absolutely perfect, a bit lower in calories, quite low in sugar/starch. And, there are other areas where it’s the opposite.

That’s how it is in California. Second cutting is usually considered safer to feed.

[Calvincrowe]

I guess for me, I want the hay that my retired, easy keeping, Cushings and IR geldings will EAT and not waste. Hay is far too expensive here (PNW) to waste any of it. My boys have proven time and again that stemmy hay is wasted hay-- and they lose weight, sometimes too much, and then seek food by leaning on fences, get grumpy with each other and bite/kick, and generally act like idiots.

So, I buy 2nd cut orchard and they eat it happily and all of it. I know that it is often lower in NSC due to growing conditions (it’s not as cold/changeable in July as it is in May in Central Oregon), and definitely much lower than our ‘local’ native grass hays that so many buy as ‘filler hay’ for their easy keeping stock breeds. My vet practice helped me develop a feeding program for my aged Paint who is Cushings and IR-- and central to that is a muzzle at all times on grass, Heiro supplement for his feet (two mild laminitis episodes in 3 years), and weighed OG hay, 2nd cut, tested (all the hay from my grower is below 12%, consistently).

[ytr45]

i’m in virginia

[StormyDay]

I’m in Virginia. Around me, the first and second cut tend to be very sugary and high calorie. Third cutting tends to be the poorest hay, because we usually have hot dry weather for its’ growing time, which makes it more stemmy.

But this can be very dependent on the year. If you know your hay farmer, I’d ask them. They are going to know what the conditions were like and know how other customers horses are doing on it. Of course, the best option is to test it, but that’s not always possible.

[Scribbler]

@ytr45

Disclaimer: I don’t get my hay analyzed and my pony is healthy, just a super easy keeper who’s not getting any work now…

I just want to double check, that for easy keepers who tend to get fat (the ones who get muzzled on grass), they should always be fed any type of 1st cutting (timothy, orchard grass, brome) and not any type of second cutting hay.

I’m thinking mostly of frigid days and nights when I want the pony to have unlimited forage for the hindgut, but not the unlimited calories of 2nd cutting hay.

Is this always correct, or mostly correct? I have always gotten 2nd cutting in the past when the pony was in work and 1st cutting hay seemed to leave too much waste. But now I’m thinking I need to go back to 1st cutting.
thanks Coth community - I really appreciate you guys!

You need to test the hay.

Where I live the NSC is off the charts for local grass hay, like about 25 per cent for both first and second cut. First cut looks like “good low nutrition pony hay” and is very coarse with low protein and low minerals, but the sugar is sky high. I’ve watched people founder a pony feeding this free choice.

I switched over to commercially grown quality Timothy from out of town, and I feel the horses weight levels and type of weight and condition are much better.

[candyappy]

All 3 of mine are easy keepers. We have 1st, 2nd and some 3rd cutting put up this year. All grass/ clover mix.

As a rule I try and give them the first cutting only because it is more long stemmed and most likely less rich ( calorie dense) but they do get all 3 kinds of hay when we clean up after the goats every morning. It can change daily depending on what we feed the goats.

When they do get the " good stuff" I back way off on the amount I feed. They still have dormant grass they can snack on and that helps to balance it all out.

Through this last week of frigid weather I had some grass only squares from 2021 and I kept them supplied with free choice hay and didn’t have to worry about it being unlimited.

[walktrot]

I’m in southern Maine and horses in this area are on first cutting most of the time. Weather has so much to do with hay supply because the growing season is so short. It generally starts in June, but it could be early in the month, or closer to July. You need to plan for 3 clear sunny days to cut, tedd and bale. There are times when you will see guys on their tractors after supper often baling. If the first cut in June slips toward July, a second cut is iffy. This year it was extremely dry. They started in June as usual, but it continued all summer, into September without a break.

There also is a distinction between horse hay and cow hay. Horse hay has to cure in the field in the sun and may be tedded several times so it will dry. Cow hay can be cut and baled in one day. Round bales for cows are often wrapped in white plastic these days. Feeding them damp hay isn’t a problem.

About 10 years ago a local barn owner bought horses cheap when the owners couldn’t afford to keep them. She bought some cheap round bales and there was an outbreak of botulism. That rarely happens around here. About a half dozen died, and at least 20 were put down. She planned to bury them in a mass grave but the town said no, it would contaminate the water table. The assumption was she bought cow hay because it is cheaper.

[ladipus]

Without having an analysis there is no way to know the sugar and starch content of your first cutting …I have beautiful soft second cutting grass that is tested low sugar …and I also have first cutting Timothy that is substantially higher nsc than my second cutting

[horsepoor]

Another one repeating the same as others - absent testing, you have no way of knowing what you have. I test all my hay, and I can’t say I have found a correlation between cutting and sugar/starch nor do I think one can determine just by looking what it will be. Growing conditions (fertilizer, irrigation, temps, etc.) and harvest time (even time of day) can affect it so much. My only preference for 1st cutting has been to slow down the hoover-horse so the hay lasts them longer.