2 Questions-for Draft Drivers & Halflinger Peeps

[2DogsFarm]

I went to our county Fair last night for the Draft Horse show and was disappointed at the turnout.

The Big Deal class of 6-horse hitches had only 4 entries this year - 3 teams of Belgians and 1 of black Percherons.
While they were nicely turned out, in years past there have been as many as 9 teams entered with other breeds - Clydesdales, gray Percherons - represented. Some from as far away as Canada.

Is the economy maybe accountable for the poor turnout?
I know it is not inexpensive (understatement) to show a team that large.

Also the Draft Pony classes were exclusively Halflingers with the exception of one team of Mules.
Does anyone show another Pony Draft breed?

Next question for the Halflinger people:
A friend insists her black grade pony (purchased locally, no registration papers) is 1/2 Halflinger & could be registered & shown as such.
He is sort of stoutly built for a large pony - ~13h+ - but does not look much like a Halflinger or any other Draft breed. He’s not at all fine, but not as substantial bone as I’d expect to see in a draftX
Is it possible for him to have any Halflinger in him (I know…any crossbreed is “possible”) OR to be registered w/o any proof of breeding?

[goodhors]

What we are seeing is that Premiums, money for placings, is down at the County level. State is not subsidizing the Fair Premiums any more, hasn’t here for about 3 years. Some Fairs can afford to pay Premiums, others can not.

Draft folks come out and expect to win money, which offsets their expenses, maybe turns a profit if they are pretty good. With money as part of the goal, showing for no money may take some readjusting to doing. While other folks won’t bother for no money. Being Champion is fine, but does not pay the bills.

Can’t say if there are less exhibitors now with no money paid, because the 2 local Fairs do not have Draft classes for Open.

We have Fjords that show in Draft Pony, lots of crossbreds, and the Haflingers. Around here the Haffies are very common, of good quality, EASY to match, so there are numerous Haflingers visible driving. Some excellent Welsh animals get crossed with mixed breed ponies to make some stylish individuals of substance for driving, carriage or Draft hitched. Draft crossed ponies are easy to find, but may be harder to match as individuals.

Black pony could be what she says, but without knowing breeder to verify, it is a guess. Can’t say as I have ever heard any person bragging up owning a “registered Half-Haflinger” like is done with breed association registered Half-Arabs, Welsh Pony crosses. I know some folks have bought various Haflinger crosses, called them “Quarter-Flingers” for fun. To see if crossbred Haflingers can be registered, you should check with the Haflinger Association. Could be a new angle. Cleveland Bays will register partbred offspring to 1/8 blood, so other Registries could now be doing that as well.

My belief about bragging “could have” is if the owner could register their animal, they WOULD have done so.

[2DogsFarm]

Thanks, goodhors
The payout for the 6H class was $2500, but they didn’t show the split.
Even if it all went to the winner I imagine that would barely offset the cost of transporting team & wagon any distance.

I believe the deal is State Fair is next week, so the County is a stopover & warmup for that.

& thanks as well for the confirmation of the doubtfulness of friend’s fairytale belief of lineage for the pony.
Unless you have registration papers & one or both parents onsite there is no proving breed.
And unless you are breeding yourself who cares?

ETA:
jogged my memory - her original claim was pony was full Halflinger.
When I opined they do not come in black, then he became 50/50.
I have not asked what he emits when he farts…yet…

[wireweiners]

The black pony could be a haflinger cross. The modern haflingers aren’t really drafty at all and are starting to bear a marked resemblance to Welsh ponies. I seem to recall from the Yahoo haflinger list that there was someone trying to start a half-haflinger registry. It was sort of controversial as was the spotted haflinger registry.

[Sipsi]

I think some of the bigger venues pay some $$ for the big hitches to come. Smaller venues don’t usually have the money, if they even have a payout. We are going to the OK State Fair and they pay $250-$700 depending on distance. Not a lot, but anything is helpful.

If you’ve ever seen the rigs they show up in - amazing!

[2DogsFarm]

OK, wirewieners I’ll give friend the Benefit of the Doubt.
Sometimes my Truth-o-meter gets stuck on Factual

Sipsi:
County Fair is pretty major IMHO - it’s 150 years old and draws entries from all over the Midwest & those Canadians I mentioned.
But, the economy being what it is, perhaps the Pay The Competitors source dried up?

Disappointing the heck outta me :no:

I can imagine what sort of entourage & equipment it takes to load 6 Drafts, their harness & wagon :eek:

Your average GN trailer is not gonna do the job.

I’m impressed enough by the accoutrements: harness tackboxes the size of walk-in closets…

[bayou_bengal]

I know a horse that is supposed to be 2/4 Morgan and 1/4 Haflinger. She is a chunky little bright red bay thing. Her legs don’t look drafty at all, but her butt sure does.

[2DogsFarm]

Aaarrrggghhh

OK - friend just emailed to tell me the Halflinger Registry told her a cross can be any color.
DUH
But any color does not guarantee a Halflinger cross.

WTFruitbat:
if color was all that mattered, I could tell people my Buckskin is a Kiger Mustang…all 17h+ of him…

Rant over, you may return to your regular programming

[ironbessflint]

Well for your friend’s pony…the short version is, no there won’t be any registered Haflingers in black. However, there’s some very interesting discussion on that theory here:
http://www.haflingerhorses.com/history.htm

However, there isn’t any part- or half-bred branch of the Haflinger registry. He definitely can’t be registered as that, especially with no proof of parentage. I believe you can DNA test for known parentage and hardship into the AHR for a horse without papers, but it doesn’t sound like that really what she’s got going.

Still sounds cute though…pictures?

[Miichelle]

Just my two cents worth here, but a drafty Haflinger doesn’t fit the World Haflinger Assoc. (The Haffie “parent” club based in Austria) breed standard. My best description of a correct Haffie is a “pony sized warmblood”.

[bayou_bengal]

[QUOTE=Miichelle;5772955]
Just my two cents worth here, but a drafty Haflinger doesn’t fit the World Haflinger Assoc. (The Haffie “parent” club based in Austria) breed standard. My best description of a correct Haffie is a “pony sized warmblood”.[/QUOTE]

Well just another example of people tampering with a cnturies old “type” to make it look like a fricking warmblood, and make it taller.

All the Haflingers I have seen are very chunky and drafty looking and about 13 to 14.2. hands. They are the traditional Haflingers not the newfangled ones. Thgey look like they can actually pull some weight or plow all day

The more “modern” Haflingers are larger and less drafty. IMHO all the draft or heavy horse and pony breeds are suffering because people are trying to make them look like warmbloods. I DON’T like this trend at all.

If you want a warmblood, go buy a warmblood.

I want a draft horse or pony to LOOK like a draft horse or pony.:yes:

[2DogsFarm]

Thanks again, all

ironbessflint: I emailed that link to friend
she can now say she has a historically correct halfbred :lol:
sorry - no pics, but he is cute

The burr beneath my saddle was because w/o proof who cares what the alleged breeding is as long as the horse does what you want.

A pedigree does not guarantee soundness, talent or personality.
I know your odds are greater of getting 2 of those 3 with traceable lineage, but for a paperless backyard-bred pony, it’s all conjecture.

My point to friend was no bragging rights w/o some proof.
So
There

[ironbessflint]

@bayou_bengal;5773007

Well just another example of people tampering with a cnturies old “type” to make it look like a fricking warmblood, and make it taller.

All the Haflingers I have seen are very chunky and drafty looking and about 13 to 14.2. hands. They are the traditional Haflingers not the newfangled ones. Thgey look like they can actually pull some weight or plow all day

The more “modern” Haflingers are larger and less drafty. IMHO all the draft or heavy horse and pony breeds are suffering because people are trying to make them look like warmbloods. I DON’T like this trend at all.

If you want a warmblood, go buy a warmblood.

I want a draft horse or pony to LOOK like a draft horse or pony.:yes:

Not to completely hijack the thread, but a) Haflingers aren’t centuries old, and b) Haflingers started out tall and sporty, were bred down to pack animals during WWII, and the World Haflinger Federation and national registries are now trying to get back to what the breed WAS originally.

[goodhors]

[QUOTE=ironbessflint;5774242]
Not to completely hijack the thread, but a) Haflingers aren’t centuries old, and b) Haflingers started out tall and sporty, were bred down to pack animals during WWII, and the World Haflinger Federation and national registries are now trying to get back to what the breed WAS originally.[/QUOTE]

Have to agree with this. Americans tend to modify ANY ANIMAL they get their hands on until it scarcely resembles the orginal source. Here the local farmer drivers wanted Draft ponies that were easy to match. So they bred them chunky and fed them like full size horses to get that look of smaller Belgians for pulling and draft hitch driving competitions. I was close to Haflinger folks when the BREED approved Judges went to Austria to be “trained” at choosing correct type animals in breed shows. Type was far from the American Draft look that was common at the time. Lots of unhappy folks when those Judges started choosing the athletic type over bulk in the breed shows.

I don’t think the leaner bodies make them look like Warmbloods at all. Just makes the animals more capable of being good athletes in more catagories. As with QH breeding, various lines may be more suitable for specific activities. I am sure the heavier bodied types will stay available, since they are desirable for certain activities.

Tudor Oaks Farm in Illinois were the first folks in our area to be showing imported Austrian Haflingers in Driving and letting everyone know how MUCH they were capable of doing. Owner hired some excellent drivers to train and show the animals. This was years ago, early 1990’s, so not sure the Farm is still going. Did admire their ponies though, all good specimens of the Austrian breeding program.

[RidesAHaflinger]

Tudor Oaks Farms is indeed still in business and still leading the way in breeding, training and selling some of the finest Haflingers in this country.

The argument in the U.S. over the so-called drafty vs the ‘modern’ type of Haflinger continues and there are extremes seen in both directions. There are good breeders such as TOF and others that are striving to produce a classic Haflinger that is in between the extremes and is well-proportioned, athletic and capable in many disciplines. There are also people who are still breeding the shorter, heavier Haflingers so that type isn’t likely to disappear from the scene any time soon. The breed standard in the U.S. is actually broad enough to accommodate both types to a fairly generous extent.

Many Haflingers in this country are simply overweight and owners are often pleasantly surprised when they take some weight off their Haflingers, get them in condition and then discover that what they thought was a ‘drafty’ pony is really more of a sports model. It happened with mine when I took about 100 lbs off of each a couple of years ago and got them in shape. :winkgrin:

@goodhors;5774692

I don’t think the leaner bodies make them look like Warmbloods at all. Just makes the animals more capable of being good athletes in more catagories. As with QH breeding, various lines may be more suitable for specific activities. I am sure the heavier bodied types will stay available, since they are desirable for certain activities.

Tudor Oaks Farm in Illinois were the first folks in our area to be showing imported Austrian Haflingers in Driving and letting everyone know how MUCH they were capable of doing. Owner hired some excellent drivers to train and show the animals. This was years ago, early 1990’s, so not sure the Farm is still going. Did admire their ponies though, all good specimens of the Austrian breeding program.

[Miichelle]

I think most Americans have it backwards, as has been pointed out already. The “modern” Haffie is actually the traditional Austrian type, the drafty “traditional” type is left over from WWII. America is the only country I know of showing Haffies as drafts

[Ceffyl_Dwr]

The first Italian Haflinger studbook in 1931 lists both bays and blacks in good number. Even into the 40s it was not uncommon to find dark colored or roan haffies, so I’m not surprised by this owner’s dark unicorn. Even today, one can still find a dorsal stripe or dark leg markings. While the chestnut has long been the preferred color, this is nevertheless a breed rather new to the scene.

[2DogsFarm]

@Ceffyl_Dwr You realize you have resurrected a 9yo thread.
Friend long ago relocated & is now horseless, Alleged Haffie is probably dead & I now have numerous friends with Driving Halflingers of the Registered kind - all the Drafty type.

[Ceffyl_Dwr]

@2DogsFarm

@Ceffyl_Dwr You realize you have resurrected a 9yo thread.
Friend long ago relocated & is now horseless, Alleged Haffie is probably dead & I now have numerous friends with Driving Halflingers of the Registered kind - all the Drafty type.

I’m aware. Since there’s no expiration date on information, I decided to offer up some knowledge for the next person that might come along and read a 9 year old thread.