2015 Pony Jumper maximum height increased to: 1.20m

[foxcreek]

From the rules for the 2015 Pony Jumpers:

A Team Championship and an Individual Championship will be offered. The Team Championship will be a modified Nation’s Cup format (two rounds on the same day). The Individual Championship will be a multi-round competition. Fence heights will be a maximum of 1.20m.

Does anyone else besides myself have concerns about this!!!

This is sending the wrong message to our kids. The emphasis should be on learning to ride technical courses correctly FIRST - something our kids are still struggling with as evidenced by this years Pony Finals.

[dags]

While I agree with your premise, it simply has not worked. If there is one thing 1.20m fences will do it is require these kids ride correctly, and be on mounts properly suited to do this job. Trainers could have taught these kids to ride the courses technically but they did not. USEF is stepping in.

I predict/anticipate/hope to high heavens that this new height forces kids to respect the challenges of this division, and not just gloss by them at a million meters a second.

But still feel it will forever be plagued by being held at a hunter show. Perhaps it would fit in better with Young Riders, then at least we would have actual jumper trainers in attendance.

[skyy]

Don’t even get me started…I love the PJ’s. My daughter does the PJ’s. I know a lot of great kids who do the PJ’s. Truly talented, hard working kids on talented ponies. And yet there are so many things wrong with division starting at the local show level. A lot of the kids can’t jump technical courses because they can’t get exposure to them. Yes, the trainers can build technical courses at home but really - how many farms have rings the size of show rings where you can actually build a show worthy course? The triple at PF was the downfall of many kids and ponies. I have never seen a triple at a show in the PJ’s. Why, you might ask? Because people bitch about them so the show managers don’t build them. And most of the local shows don’t build to height. They might call it 1.05 or 1.10 but it’s not. Even Devon’s first class was not a real 1.05. I would much rather have my kid go in and attempt a real 1.05 or 1.10 set with elements like you will see at PF and fail (and then of course, you know where more work is needed) than to go in thinking that what they are jumping is a legitimate PJ course when it’s not. To me, the point of horse showing is to take a “test” to see whether your “home work” is up to snuff.

Increasing the height to 1.20 for PF in my opinion really won’t change anything. The technicality of the courses at PF will get the kids before the height does. The ponies that move on to the high individual class on the last day (for the most part) are kids and ponies that truly deserve to be there. They can ride the technical course and another 2" won’t make that much difference. I am willing to bet that you will never see a 1.20 PJ course except at PF.

[foxcreek]

skyy, yup, exactly my point. My son rides the PJ’s too - he won the Farewell Class this year - so I also know first hand the problems at the shows. I agree that the technicality of the courses at PF will get the kids before the jump height does - but that’s kind of my point.

Why are we increasing jump height when the kids are having problems with the fundamentals?

[lcw579]

Why? Because everyone bitches and moans about the kids that just fly around at Mach 10 and the powers that be think that increasing the height will scare some of them away.

From what I heard from people who were at PF this year, the jumps there weren’t set to height either. So even though this year was supposed to be the one where only the higher heights counted to qualify at PF it didn’t seem to matter since the heights appeared to be lower everywhere. At least in Zone 2. You can request that the fences go up. I’ve seen it done successfully before.

If you are going to have your kid do the jumpers than you have to use a trainer that does the jumpers - in the style you want to emulate. We are lucky enough to have access to rings bigger than some show grounds but DD rarely schooled courses. What my DD’s trainer did was work on the individual skills needed to put together a very technical course. I worked well for us.

[findeight]

If you have ever been to the Maclay Medal Regionals you see the same thing. Not as dramatic perhaps but you still see those that fooled themselves or were fooled by “soft” courses, poor preparation and went in to lay down a course best forgotten. If they got around.

We even have an almost annual discussion around Medal Finals time about lack of preparedness. And sometimes the fact so many horses just didn’t have the scope to get around…something somebody should have pointed out before spending all that money. Or did and were ignored.

There’s this whole thing about little Suzy just wants to go to do it. Nobody wants to say no, you need more work or the Pony/horse just can’t do it. Never did think these horses had much fun when faced with questions they and Suzy don’t have the tools to answer and the consequences of a wrong answer are hard rubs, painful skids into the jump or getting smacked for having the sense to say no to scary distances to big spreads.

I don’t know about putting it with YR, doubt the logistics would work. Always surprised more folks don’t come a couple of days earlier and take advantage of the A show that wraps the day before PF starts, tons of Ch/Ad schooling classes.

[Ammy_Owner]

Maybe I am reading this wrong but the word “maximum” leads me to believe the jumps can be at any height BELOW 1.20. I don’t think they will actually be set at a 1.20 they just have the option of doing so, and no higher than that.

[Tiger_Paws]

[QUOTE=Ammy Owner;7749877]
Maybe I am reading this wrong but the word “maximum” leads me to believe the jumps can be at any height BELOW 1.20. I don’t think they will actually be set at a 1.20 they just have the option of doing so, and no higher than that.[/QUOTE]

Is there not a rule that a certain percentage of the jumps must be set at max height?

I know there is in Canada.

[yellowbritches]

Hmm…the pony jumpers in Europe jump massive fences. They seem to have no problem riding safely around big, technical courses.

ducks and runs

[SlamDunk]

[QUOTE=yellowbritches;7750540]
Hmm…the pony jumpers in Europe jump massive fences. They seem to have no problem riding safely around big, technical courses.

ducks and runs[/QUOTE]

The real issue is not that there isn’t kids that could do it in the US, but rather the kids that could do it are already riding horses.

In Europe ponies are prestigious, kids will have a whole lorry full of them and will also keep showing the 14.2s till they are 16 even.

Where as in the USA you have kids like Victoria Colvin (16) whose been on horses for ages and showing on a horse in GPs. In Europe she probably would have gone to pony championships several times by now. I know when I watch Maclay finals there are routinely 13-14 year olds riding in it.

I’ve worked in Europe, I’ve seen the pony jumpers there and been to show jumping shows. I’m just sick of people bringing up pony jumpers in a way that assumes North Americans couldn’t do it when the reality is that we have the same kids doing equally technical courses of the same height…just on horses instead of ponies. And if magically provided a top pony jumper from Europe I’m sure that they could ride it around no problem.

[yellowbritches]

I think it is more than people don’t give the PONIES the respect they deserve. We rush to get them off the ponies so they can jump bigger and do more because we seem to think ponies top out at 3 ft. Which is sad.

And I do think there is a bit of a difference galloping a 14.2h pony down to 1.20m fence versus a 16.2h horse down to an equal size fence. Even if the pony has a monster stride, it requires a certain level of guts and skill that you just don’t need on a big horse. So, yeah, we might have kids that can answer the questions on horses, but are they missing a certain element by not being required to do it on ponies? Just a thought. I have no dog in this fight!

[SlamDunk]

[QUOTE=yellowbritches;7750567]
I think it is more than people don’t give the PONIES the respect they deserve. We rush to get them off the ponies so they can jump bigger and do more because we seem to think ponies top out at 3 ft. Which is sad.

And I do think there is a bit of a difference galloping a 14.2h pony down to 1.20m fence versus a 16.2h horse down to an equal size fence. Even if the pony has a monster stride, it requires a certain level of guts and skill that you just don’t need on a big horse. So, yeah, we might have kids that can answer the questions on horses, but are they missing a certain element by not being required to do it on ponies? Just a thought. I have no dog in this fight![/QUOTE]

Honestly having sat on a few of those ponies before…they are absolute machines, it might even be easier to jump them around 1.20m then the average horse. They don’t need a lot of help balancing, have a lot of initiative and decision making ability, and easily have more scope then a lot of horses. They are really really cool.

There was a pony stallion in my area showing 1.20m open classes with a pro, that took a little more guts and skill as the combinations were set for horses, which created an added degree of difficulty. If that same pony were jumping around the same track with combinations measured for ponies it would have never had a problem. Scope is scope honestly.

[hunterrider23]

Can someone tell me why we don’t consider anything under 15 hands a pony? I can think of a lot of 14.3 ish honies that would easily rock the pjs w/o being scary. Even though people think the height is too low, why do we not have a separate division for smalls and mediums? Wouldn’t that also encourage not running to make the time and stride. They could be judged together, but with the lines shortened up. Maybe with 1.20/1.25 for larges, 1.15/1.20 mediums, and 1.15/1.10 smalls? Maybe the american jumper base would then grow, especially if childrens jumpers became a nonrated division with the next step being the low juniors at the 1.20+ and maybe extending the pony and junior jumpers from under 18 classes to young rider classes under 21. We could have the pony jumper finals along with YR finals right before pony hunter and maybe even jr hunter finals. That way we can also encourage the trainers for pj finals to be more jumper oriented especially with either already being there for YR finals or additionally encouraging more of their kids to do the YRs. Just a thought.

[Lucy17]

It’ll be a hot mess with a majority of them, unless this 1.2m, “more techinical” course sparks the “trainers” of the ones going Mach10 with no mechanics to learn to teach mechanics. It’s not all balls out speed. We have a TINY indoor we spend the winter in and train. Our outdoor isn’t huge, nor elaborately set up. Learning to ride a “technical” jumper course, and winning, doesn’t always require a full-on show jumper set up for every lesson…

Harrisburg is coming - see you guys soon when we’ll undoubtly be mortified by the blind speed, point-n-shoot riding, and smackin’ ponies in the neck with bats before every other jump (and of course we do sing the praises of those who can actually ride).

[chunky_munky]

Flat cups on every jump. Simple.

[Pussy_Cat]

No more pony jumpers at Harrisburg. Last year was their swan song.

[RyuEquestrian]

Well said Dags and I agree 100% with this especially when comparing what I have seen of kids riding in this country vs. in Europe.

[QUOTE=dags;7748165]
While I agree with your premise, it simply has not worked. If there is one thing 1.20m fences will do it is require these kids ride correctly, and be on mounts properly suited to do this job. Trainers could have taught these kids to ride the courses technically but they did not. USEF is stepping in.

I predict/anticipate/hope to high heavens that this new height forces kids to respect the challenges of this division, and not just gloss by them at a million meters a second.

But still feel it will forever be plagued by being held at a hunter show. Perhaps it would fit in better with Young Riders, then at least we would have actual jumper trainers in attendance.[/QUOTE]

[Willesdon]

Different discipline, but in a recent Horse & Hound article about training for cross country, Francis Whittington (4* rider) made the point that you don’t learn to jump by doing lots and lots and lots of courses. He said the skills are developed on the flat, obtaining balance, suppleness, responsiveness to the aids BEFORE you go off galloping over fences. Then you have the tools to jump well. Height is not the point: almost any 13.2 pony can clear 1.2 m. Ask any Welsh section C who has jumped out of his stable, from a standing start.