2018 WEG Discussion Thread

[pluvinel]

@alicen

Because the epitome of grand prix dressage is collection as manifested in p/p and canter pirouettes.

You realize that was not historically true? There was great controversy to introduce these movements around the times of the 1936 Olympics when the piaffe and passage were proposed to be included.

It was the time period of the cavalry’s big forward galloping “campaign school” horse. The passage and piaffe were considered “manege figures” and thus were considered antiquated, archaic and obsolete movements.

I don’t have time to go digging in my assortment of Podhajsky’s books, but this is the history he presents in the evolution of dressage tests. It iis in one of his books that describes the dressage tests up to 1972.

[DownYonder]

@enjoytheride

That is my issue. If Tryon says the footing would be fine for dressage horses then why do they need to “test ride” on it for 24 hours? Is there some sort of rule about if your horse cost over a certain amount you got to test ride in the show arenas?

Why could all the eventers stay over until Monday but none of the dressage horses could? Special gold plated dressage horse airplanes?

I don’t know if there is a “rule” that the dressage riders get to test the footing before competing on it, but my understanding is that many (most? all?) of the riders scheduled for the freestyle basically said they would not compete on untested footing. And since it wasn’t logistically possible to get the reiners finished and redo the footing in time for the dressage riders to test at a reasonable hour Saturday, the dressage riders elected to withdraw from the freestyle. IOW, they were not going to risk their multimillion dollar horses on uncertain footing (esp. Isabell, who spent 3-1/2 years rehabbing her mare from an injury caused by bad footing at WEG 2014).

And I believe the flight schedule had the eventers flying out on Tuesday/Wednesday - which is why they could stay through Monday.

[DownYonder]

@vineyridge

The eventers sucked it up and had a very effective show jumping day in the main arena this morning. The sun was shining, and the footing was just about perfect. Now someone is going to have to reschedule all the eventers’ flights back to Europe, and all but about 10 are involved. So how come no one seems to give a flying f* about the eventers’ horses not getting home right on schedule? Are the flight logistics for ground staff any different for rescheduling the eventers and finding places for 13 dressage horses on outgoing planes. Or is the serious threat to horse welfare only supposed to apply to dressage horses?

The dressage people are simply divas with all that implies.

Won’t argue that dressage people are divas, but I believe that the flight schedules had the European dressage horses departing on Monday. The event horses are scheduled to depart on Tues/Wed, so they could compete today (Monday), and still ship out tomorrow.

[alicen]

@pluvinel

You realize that was not historically true?

I believe the comment was referring to contemporary dressage competition.

[pluvinel]

@alicen

I believe the comment was referring to contemporary dressage competition.

You’re making me feel old…I consider the 1936 Olympics Equestrian competition to be “contemporary”…or at least “current” in the in the time-line of the history of dressage competitions.

[BigMama1]

@vineyridge

The eventers sucked it up and had a very effective show jumping day in the main arena this morning. The sun was shining, and the footing was just about perfect. Now someone is going to have to reschedule all the eventers’ flights back to Europe, and all but about 10 are involved. So how come no one seems to give a flying f* about the eventers’ horses not getting home right on schedule? Are the flight logistics for ground staff any different for rescheduling the eventers and finding places for 13 dressage horses on outgoing planes. Or is the serious threat to horse welfare only supposed to apply to dressage horses?

The dressage people are simply divas with all that implies.

I don’t recall anyone implying that rescheduling the dressage horses flights involved any kind of risk or threat to welfare? All I’ve heard is that they were not able to reschedule. Whether that’s a logistical decision from the airports, the airlines, the competition or the teams I have no idea.

But if not wanting to risk your horse’s soundness by competing on unsafe footing makes one a diva, then I’m proud to be a diva too!

[BigMama1]

@enjoytheride

That is my issue. If Tryon says the footing would be fine for dressage horses then why do they need to “test ride” on it for 24 hours? Is there some sort of rule about if your horse cost over a certain amount you got to test ride in the show arenas?

Why could all the eventers stay over until Monday but none of the dressage horses could? Special gold plated dressage horse airplanes?

Our bigger shows always have open schooling available in the show ring on the day prior to the show. Why wouldn’t this be available to the best riders at the biggest shows? I wouldn’t expect it at a local one-day schooling show, but it’s pretty standard for a multi-day show, at least around here. Is that not the norm at other CDIs / FEI run championships?

[enjoytheride]

@ladyj79

Apparently, since youre ok riding on subpar or downright dangerous footing, by your own admission.

At what point did I say this? I specifically said I warmed up on the edges of a farm driveway to avoid dangerous footing in a warm up ring. Is grass subpar to you? Or sand? I wouldn’t imagine anything WEG had as footing to be in anyway “Subpar” I’m redoing my rings right now, perhaps they can send me some of their subpar footing. It’s probably significantly better than the sand and dusty 12s I’m forcing my worthless lower level horse to toil away on.

[vineyridge]

Wasn’t there a claim that the difficulties on the receiving end if the flights were rescheduled would be a horse welfare issue?

[BigMama1]

@vineyridge

Wasn’t there a claim that the difficulties on the receiving end if the flights were rescheduled would be a horse welfare issue?

Not that I heard. Just that it would create a logistical nightmare on both ends and a domino
affect on all the subsequent flights, given how tightly scheduled they
were.

And for whoever it was who is still asking why the evemters were ok moving from Sunday to Monday, it’s because their flights weren’t scheduled until Tuesday so no rescheduling of flights or request to compete and ship the same day.

[vineyridge]

@BigMama1

Not that I heard. Just that it would create a logistical nightmare on both ends and a domino
affect on all the subsequent flights, given how tightly scheduled they
were.

And for whoever it was who is still asking why the evemters were ok moving from Sunday to Monday, it’s because their flights weren’t scheduled until Tuesday so no rescheduling of flights or request to compete and ship the same day.

How did y’all find out the flight schedules for the eventers?

[DownYonder]

@vineyridge

How did y’all find out the flight schedules for the eventers?

I don’t have the link handy, but shipping info was in the Peden Bloodstock Freight Manual for WEG. For Greenville - Leige, I had heard through the grapevine that some of the Euro dressage teams secured transport for the 9/17 flight as soon as bookings opened. And Euro eventers had scheduled for the next day’s flight. Neither group could change those plans without throwing the remaining shipping schedules out of whack.

[Willy_Von_Whompers]

I think it is a bit childish to call these dressage riders divas per se. Your own local club may have it’s share but that’s different.

Think of the time and money put into acquiring, training and qualifying these horses. It’s simply practical not to risk them unnecessarily. I don’t think any flout and pounce and dramatics need to come into the decision with these guys. When you are someone like Hans Peter M or Ed Gal these horses are your profession, they are what you do and you need to have top level GP horses in your string to keep you in the public eye, in front of the judges, seen as a serious contender. I mean look at the vast amounts of money (VAST) that Glock puts into these horses and other top European sponsors and STILL the Ed’s and Isabelle’s have a fairly short string of GP horses that can go in nail the scores at the highest level. These horses don’t grow on trees no matter how much money you have.

Sure they may have tons of up and comers, but even the top guys “only” (yes only noted ironically) have a few GP horses capable of getting in the top ten. That’s their business, the reason Glock and other sponsors employ these guys - to be out there capable of scoring in the top 10 in any league. Risking your top horses is simply a stupid decision.

Now I adore my horses and I wouldn’t risk their legs either, but that is an emotional decision, my financial future doesn’t rest on showing a sound horse.

i just think saying these folk are being divas is unfair. The dressage world is full of divas, but I doubt these folk make up that number.

[Nestor]

Actually some of the event horses flew back to Europe yesterday, with the dressage horses, per Dutta Corp’s social media accounts.

[Mondo]

If I may weigh in on the footing discussion (a day late and a dollar short) my understanding of the reining movements is as was previously described - they need the soft, deep footing for the spins and sliding stops. I would add another component to that: way upthread, someone said that “a horse is a horse, their legs are all built the same,” or something to that effect. They have the same anatomy in the legs, that is true, but they are not built the same at all. Those little short-legged, low to the ground (15.2 is a big one!) quarter horses are built very differently from an FEI dressage horse. They have to be because the stresses on their legs are equally demanding, but not the same stresses on the dressage horses’ legs.

A related anecdote: About 20 years ago, we had a very large dressage show here in my neck of the woods. One of the main attractions was a Saturday night gala, which often featured demonstrations of other equestrian disciplines. I remember one year, we were all eagerly awaiting the reining horse demonstration in the main indoor arena. Well, the other “acts” came and went, but no reiners. At the end of the evening, it was announced that the reining horse group had cancelled their performance because there was NO WAY they were going to ride on that footing. So it just goes to show that even before the state of the art footing we are seeing now, the two disciplines discerned a difference in their footing requirements.

[BigMama1]

Has anybody been watching the para dressage? So good! And another medal for a Mount St. John horse!

[TwentyYearDream]

@theresak

I saw on FB that the GB dressage horses were already on the trailer to the airport Monday afternoon.

I know I’m late to the game, but in case no one else mentioned it…

This only applies to the British team, so it couldn’t have had any impact on the other horses flying out, but the British Nationals started yesterday (I’m told Charlotte rode numerous horses there) and so they may have been eager to get them home if there was no chance that the rides would be rescheduled. I’m not sure how much time they like to give the horses (and riders for that matter) to acclimate, if at all, when traveling long distances.

[exploding_pony]

So I’ve actually boarded at a barn with reiners and the footing is completely different. Very deep, specifically for slide stops. And sort of “fluffier” in my experience. The horses move completely differently and carry themselves very differently.

For dressage you want a firmer surface with more elasticity, not depth, so you can do piaffe and passage safely. I want to say you want 2" of footing on top of the base for dressage and it often includes binding agents to make it more elastic and stable. The reining arenas I’ve been in are like 4-6" deep.

It’s a completely different sport with a completely different training, biomechanics and types of horses.

I personally wouldn’t ride my dressage horses in the footing and I can’t imagine someone with an olympic caliber horse would consider it.

It’s not just removing the footing, it’s likely a completely different type of composition.

[Natalie_A]

@BigMama1

Has anybody been watching the para dressage? So good! And another medal for a Mount St. John horse!

So good! And the USA finally got on the podium with Rebecca Hart’'s individual ride. Team didn’t go as they’d hope but all are in for the freestyle tomorrow, excited to watch.