That article is from 2008. We have learned a lot since then, however it still sounds awful lol
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For sure, my point was even without being directed against a particular rider, they stressed it was a pretty harsh bit, and it was developed for a different sport than eventing (racing on the flat).
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I completely agree!! I so wish that these discussions were possible. I think that listening to any rider discuss how their horse goes and why such and such bit works for them will help someone. I would like to hear some professionals talk through the effects of each piece of equipment they have ā such as bit, bridle, and bridle accessories ā and then the sum total effect. In one of Ingrid Klimkeās books, she has a section where she explains the pieces that she does and does not use with her reasoning.
I feel like any inquires about equipment is tough. Just look at the direction that this thread is going in now 
I think that most of the time, an honest question can be perceived as an interrogation, i.e. the āhow dare a lowly amateur question a top-of-the-sport professional?ā mindset. We could sit here all day comparing Michael Jung, who almost always has his horses in some sort of minimal bit and bridle set up, compared to Elisa Wallace here who has had some rather unique bit and bridle set ups. But I think that opens the door for a much larger conversation about individualās differences in training methodology, which several people have already brought up during the time that I am writing this post.
I experience this frequently as an RN during interactions with some providers; Iām not questioning the orders because I think they are wrong, but rather that I want to inquire why this provider feels that this is the best course of treatment so that I can learn for my own knowledge and because Iām ājust a nurseā doesnāt mean I know nothing. Knowledge is power. Iāll never need to use the massive studs that are put on a 5* horse for cross country because Iāll never compete at the level, but I just like to know the information.
(Edited to finish a thought for clarity!)
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oh gotcha, ignore me then ahah Agreed.
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So, one thing I have learned as a horse owner is to not be afraid to embrace unorthodox methods way out of your traditional toolbox. I want every horse of mine to be in a snaffle. I have one horse who has been in an eggbutt his whole life with me. Heās great on a hunter pace, great if youāre schooling little logs, great and rateable doing conditioning workā¦ Once you string a course of technical fences together, he gets strong to the point that IMO, if the fences were bigger would be dangerous. I was working way too hard to bring him back. I gave him excuses: maybe his rider is incompetent. No, I know his rider is incompetent. Maybe heās not confident. Maybe he needs more mileage. Etc etc. One day my trainer had enough and marched out into the XC field with a rubber pelham and said put this on. I protested. āBut, instructor, if I bit up, how will I ever have a quiet XC horse where Iām not waterskiing off of his mouth the whole ride?? Heās already tense, wonāt bitting up make it worse?? I donāt want to be one of those people that horrifies the GJ, jump judges, and spectators as she whizzes by!ā She waved my concerns away and insisted. I put the pelham in. Holy shit, what a difference. I had a horse under me, in front of my leg, not fighting my aids. That little extra strength in the bit made it so I needed to only ask him once, instead of fighting, fighting, fighting right to the base of the fence.
Donāt get me wrong, I donāt want to see horses ridden in medieval devices XC. At some point you have to take into consideration the individual horse and rider. EW has shown she can train horses to go bitless. So, if someone like her, who has produced more than several dozen horses from nothing to competition horses, needs something stronger than her normal get-up, Iām not going to question it.
It would be different if it was someone with a track record of slapping the hardware store into a horseās mouth. I donāt think EW is quite there yet. Yes, some of her horses go in stronger set ups, but she often is not, IMO, getting the cream of the crop. She gets horses with baggage or lack of mileage and I think there is a lot of unpacking to do with some of her horses.
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See the thing is she does have a track record of slapping the hardware store in a horseās mouth when it comes to her upper level rides lol
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What horses, specifically?
Iām just going off of memory here. AFAIK she rode Simply Priceless in a D ring. Let It Be Lee went in a snaffle with kineton. Sharp Decision is in a snaffle with a drop. These are not nefarious set ups at all.
When I think of a hardware store in a horseās mouth, I donāt think these bits qualify.
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I think I replied before your recent edits came through - fair point about her horses not being the super high caliber that some other riders get to work with, I still donāt think thatās an excuse to use inhumane bitting setups but thatās just my personal preference. Iāve never been a big fan of hers bc I think she historically has shown that sheās willing to sacrifice her values to get ahead in competition, but I also have moral qualms about this with basically all upper level riders and Iāll never really be a big fan of any of them
I would agree, except this horse she did not produce and has not had long, along with his record. This seems like a bandaid to get through some events for now. Which whatever, itās her horse to do what she pleases, where the issue comes in is rider responsibility.
If the horse fell, or Woods horse fell the conversation would be different.
If you need to bit up just so you can get around, I have an issue with that. We have to have safety in the forefront of our minds.
I donāt know if that is the situation here, I donāt have all the details so this is just a general discussion from me.
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Full disclosure: I am not EWās biggest fan. She has done some things that made me lose respect for her (like SP at Badminton) but this bit set up doesnāt concern me after watching her run on XC.
EW isnāt the only one to use this bitting set up on XC. I know I have seen it before at the UL and wondered, since I recognized it as a Norton or a modification thereof. It is not uncommon in racing, both flat and harness. Iāll have to wrack my brain and see if I can remember where Iāve seen it. Hers is not a true Norton; itās modified. Weād really need to know what the mouthpiece looks like too.
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Yea agreed and this isnāt a pile on EW at all Iām neutral on her, I think itās a good discussion though and natural to occur when youāre on the world stage and photos are everywhere and everyone is wondering what the heck that is.
Just shows how out of the norm it is.
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https://www.britisheventing.com/results/horse/a1U58000001uSHZEA2
Affordable āprojectā ?
Horse had 1 previous rider (21 yo in 2022)
Replying to myself; the thing with these set ups like this is, the bits and the tools have opposite actions. The horse has no escape from pressure at any point. It gets opposite messages.
And keep in mind just because someone rides at a high level doesnāt mean they are educated on tack, bit action, bridles, saddle fit etc. Either that or they donāt care.
Even looking at Maryland photos you can see saddles without wither clearance. In 2022 that should be unheard of.
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Yes! Thatās exactly why I am curious as to the explanation of each piece of the set up and then the combined effect because I feel like so many pieces are used that have contradictory effects.
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And going in some hardware in that picture on Saffron Cresswellās websiteā¦ just sayingā¦
This whole conversation has gotten very bizarre to me.
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Is this Johnny? Definitely not something I would put my horse in. I am not an UL rider though, and my opinion is worth nothing.
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Re: the contradictory actions, it always drives me NUTS to see UL event riders with flair strips on their horsesā nose and then a flash or figure 8 noseband pulled up tight as hell lol like do you want your horse to breathe or not!!!
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The fancy ādouble nosebandā bridles are the worst for this - at least a flash or a figure 8 leaves most of the nostrils able to expand, because they start and end where a standard cavesson would be. The double noseband, not so muchā¦
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Right!
And a bit that pulls the head UP, combined with a martingale. A decide that has poll pressure, nose pressure, bit with tongue and bar pressureā¦oof.
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