2024 Olympics - Eventing

[OverandOnward]

@Willesdon

I can’t see equestrianism lasting in the Olympics beyond LA, possible Brisbane. The IOC doesn’t like it:
very expensive and complicated to organize and, so the IOC believes, of little interest to the wider Olympic audience. BMX, skateboarding, climbing, all fit in to the vision much better, cheaper, easier to put on mass media. Then all the bad press about animal abuse, complaints about judging decisions… We are seen to be out of step with the modern world.

Does anyone want a nice, plant-based vegan snack? Popcorn is OK without the butter!

I think this could be prescient. Eventing has fought very hard to stay in the Olympics, for a very long time. But it seems that after each Olympics, many eventers look at the outcomes and ask ourselves “what is the point of these compromises, how is this helping true eventing”.

I think that the several national teams that do rely on the Olympics to keep stipends to riders, sponsors and donations coming in to the sport will continue to fight and adjust adjust adjust to keep eventing in the Olympics. The Americans will probably tag along with them.

In comparison, the U.S. and international endurance-riding sport has looked into the Olympics and WEG, and seems to have chucked it as not worth the necessary compromises. Plus the Olympics and WEG seem to have decided that endurance-riding is even harder to fold into the mix than is eventing.

[FitToBeTied]

I think the IOC will keep requesting changes to eventing with the idea that, finally, eventing will just quit the games. What is sad is that the PTB of the NOG’s keep going along instead of defending the core values of the sport.

[TwiSedai]

Honestly I’m fine with this format for the teams. I really don’t see a problem in allowing a substitution just to be able to allow more countries to participate, as long as the individuals still require finishing all phases. Eventing isn’t a team sport anyways, but it’s fun to see other countries be able to participate. I say allow whatever changes are needed to keep the team competition accessible to more countries to bring in more interest, while still keeping the true spirit of eventing alive for the individuals. The two stadium jumping rounds didn’t seem to be too much for the horses, so I don’t think that’s too huge of a concern either.

[Jealoushe]

Apparently it was DOC who suggested the new format for LA.
That was interesting to learn.

[Larksmom]

personally, I became really disgusted with the IOC when it was revealed how corrupt they are. There was a huge scandal about where to allot the next Olympics, and it was discovered that there were bribes, I’m shocked, SHOCKED,) and payoffs for certain countries to get the Olympics. I don’t know if we are the only ones they meddle with, but meddle they do. I can see how it does take a lot less time to have a three person team, but that spoils the whole theme of one person, one horse. With all the substitutions, I think it would be better to just do away with team and then everyone for themself.

[FitToBeTied]

@Jealoushe

Apparently it was DOC who suggested the new format for LA.
That was interesting to learn.

I didn’t name names but his acceding to every whim of the IOC is one of the most disappointing behaviors by DOC. You would think with such a long history in the sport, he would fight for it more and better, or even at all.

[anon40672407]

@OverandOnward

The whole point of eventing is that to finish is to win. That is, finishing all 3 phases, one horse - one rider pair.

This is what I come back to.

It’s fine, IMHO, for the Olympics version to be essentially a Combined Test rather than a full 3-Day with Steeplechase and Roads and Tracks. That part is just fine to me: they have limited time, they have limited space (although one has to wonder just how hard it really is given that surfers are halfway round the globe from Paris, in order to get the right contest…)

But sure, do a Combined Test instead. But do it with horse/rider combinations that have to hold up for all three phases. No substitutions.

If a 4 horse team with a drop score is too lengthy, then do a 3 horse team with a drop score. But keep the horse/rider combo as the core of it all.

Otherwise, yes, it’s basketball.

[HiJumpGrrl]

It’s been said before, but I’ll say it again: there is no other sport in the Olympic Games where the sport is dumbed down so that other nations can participate. The Olympics will not be a true championship. It’s so sad.

[anon40672407]

@Marigold

It is not as if each horse and rider did not have to complete extensive qualifications in full in order to be there in the first place.

Certainly could be. The qualifications for horses/riders is up to each individual country, I believe.

[Groom_amp_Taxi]

Just wanted to link this COTH article from early this year about the possible Olympic format change:
https://www.chronofhorse.com/article/eventing-format-changes-in-store-for-la28-as-sport-fights-to-stay-in-olympics/

I didn’t read the article when it came out, but with the Paris competition now in the rear view mirror and the turn this thread has taken, I wanted to see some details about what is being proposed.

From the article, the proposal is to have the eventing competition take place over four days:
• Day 1: Dressage
• Day 2: Jumping
• Day 3: Cross-country (at 4*L specs) followed by team medals
• Day 4: Jumping, followed by individual medals

It’s still only a proposal, but if that were to go forward, it would mostly eliminate the substitutions that happened in Paris (and Tokyo). However, most of those substitutions occurred because the horses that were replaced weren’t good to go the day after xc. Did DOC even think about that? Things that make you go “hmmm”…

And like marigold said, if the desire is to have the xc crowd in on the medal ceremony, how does that work when some of the horses have been done for hours?

[Marigold]

@anon40672407

Certainly could be. The qualifications for horses/riders is up to each individual country, I believe.

No. The Olympics are an FEI event like any other, in terms of qualifications. Individual countries can make selections from their list of qualified individuals (whether for teams or for individual country representatives), and can impose additional qualification requirements above and beyond the minimum qualifications required by the FEI, but every starter at the Olympic Games in eventing must achieve the following:

All Athletes/Horses who take part in the Paris 2024 Olympic Games Eventing Competitions, and subject to the provisions of paragraph 2, must achieve the following minimum eligibility requirements (MERs) as a combination by obtaining “FEI qualifying results” at different events in the following level of competition which take place from 1 January 2023 until (and including) 24 June 2024):
(i) One (1) qualifying result at a CCI5*-L; or
(ii) One (1) qualifying result in a CCI4*-L AND 1 qualifying result in a CCI4*-S
(iii) Plus, one (1) qualifying result in a CCI4*-S or 4L or 5L to be obtained after 1 January 2024 and on or before 24 June 2024 (the “Confirmation Result”).

An FEI qualifying result is achieved by completing the above Competitions within the minimum parameters of an all-round performance, with:
(i) Dressage test: Not less than fifty-five percent (55%). Dressage good marks (no more than forty-five (45) penalty points);
(ii) Cross Country test: clear (0) round or 11 penalty points on Cross Country Obstacles, not more than 75 seconds over the optimum Cross Country phase time. At CCI-L 5*, the maximum time by which the optimum time may be exceeded is 100 seconds;
(iii) Jumping Test: Not more than sixteen (16) jumping penalties.

Of course, as with any other FEI result, there are qualifications the combinations must achieve to get them up to the 4 and 5* levels as well. Even if they wanted to, Team GB could not have sent Valegro as part of the eventing team and subbed him out after dressage - he is not qualified.

Source: https://inside.fei.org/system/files/Eventing%20-%20OG2024%20qualification%20system%20-%2002July2024.pdf

[Larksmom]

isn’t a combined test only two not three phases? dressage and show jumping.

[Jealoushe]

Extremely disappointing!!!

Considering they argued over 6 hrs over that flag….how on earth are they going to finish XC then award medals right after. Not very exciting.

[anon40672407]

@Marigold

No. The Olympics are an FEI event like any other, in terms of qualifications.

Thank you for the clarification!

[anon40672407]

@Larksmom

isn’t a combined test only two not three phases? dressage and show jumping.

Am I using the wrong name now? Gad, my memory isn’t working right.

What do you call 3 phases without Steeplechase and R&T? Short format?

Apologies.

[Larksmom]

apology accepted! I make goofs like that all the time… with me it is usually age related…

[anon40672407]

@Larksmom

with me it is usually age related…

((don’t remind me))

[Demerara_Stables]

@Groom_amp_Taxi

From the article, the proposal is to have the eventing competition take place over four days:
• Day 1: Dressage
• Day 2: Jumping
• Day 3: Cross-country (at 4*L specs) followed by team medals
• Day 4: Jumping, followed by individual medals

Of course LA is a different venue, but this would have never worked in Paris. First off, didn’t we reduce dressage to keep everything on 3 days? What happened to that? Second, there were easily 4x as many people on XC as could fit in the stadium. Where are they holding the medal ceremony? No one is going to see anything if it’s just out on XC. Third, it would have taken 2 hours minimum to get everyone off of XC and to a central location for a medal ceremony. XC started at 10:30 and ended at 3ish. Taking that to 5:00 or later is a LONG day for the horses, crew, staff, volunteers, and spectators. I don’t think anyone wants to do that.

[Ziggy793]

Leaving aside whether I think eventing should stay in the Olympics or not, this argument doesn’t make a ton of sense, given that I can’t think of any other Olympic sport where a specific “ask” is determined ahead of time that athletes from certain countries may or may not be able to answer.

How would one even go about “dumbing down” gymnastics? Limit the difficulty of the moves athlete’s are allowed to attempt? And of course for speed-based and other head-to-head competitions (track, swimming, basketball) the only way to dumb things down would be to limit the performance of the stronger teams.

Along the same lines, in other sports (such as track) I believe there are provisions that allow every country to send their top athlete, even if that athlete is not internationally competitive. When that happens, that athlete is simple going to do poorly in their event. That’s a little different than countries with poor eventing programs trying to send pairs that simply won’t be able to make it around xc.

[HiJumpGrrl]

Yes, I think your use of gymnastics is apt. You would limit the difficulty of movements to say, a 3. You don’t see that happening. Any skill-based sport with a subjective score could be compared to eventing. Diving. Synchronized swimming. etc. We don’t see the limiting of difficulty–Simone Biles performed a 5.6 difficulty vault, and others did not attempt anything so complex. All eventers will be held to 3* level in the proposed 2028 format, rather than the 5* several teams (GB, AUS, NZ, USA, German, France) would be able to complete.

More objective sports, like speed or height or accuracy sports, you would not be able to do the same without handicapping.