22yr TB Should I Breed?

[AppyLover95]

I’ve got a TB mare who’s 22 years old, she’s had 5 or 6 foals before as she was a broodmare before I got her.
Shes in perfect health (cycles regularly), has an amazing temperament, good conformation, is a lovely mover and very athletic. Shes about 15.5 hands maybe a lil taller, all of her previous foals have gone off to become race horses and they’ve done well and are healthy.

Im trying to decide if it’s be a good idea to breed her one last time. I’d probably breed her to a Friesian or Friesian Cross for a dressage or eventing foal. But being 22yrs I’m affraid of complications that may cause her life to be taken. I will eventually call my vet out to examin her but I want some opinions on if I should or shouldn’t breed her.

I can afford all of the vet bills and emergency stuff and this foal will stay with me till he/she dies of old age. I do have experience on working with young horses

[HungarianHippo]

If you are going to breed, it should be an exceptional mare and sire and the foal should be registerable. I dont think the world needs any more grade draft crosses --most of the ones I’ve seen look like they were assembled by a drunk committee.

Why not buy a weanling rather than breed? What’s the rationale for breeding, given that it carries risk to the mare and the risk of foal coming out with poor conformation?

[AppyLover95]

She is registered with Jockey Club and Sire would for sure be Registered so that the foal would be registrable.
I’d look for stallions that would compliment her while also improve any flaws to insure that the foal would be well proportioned.

Yes I considered going out and buying myself a foal but I wouldn’t have a say in choosing and meeting the Sire (Id plan to meet Studs in person before I decided) I would be able to meet the mother but I’d be very picky about her personality and other various things. I plan on being there when the foal is born and for every step of its life. Ill start my Foal early on training he’ll become desensitize early on and worked with on a regular basis. Where I live it’s very hard to find an exceptional breeder who sells horses/foals that can do what I need and that are handled/worked with regularly. Even in surrounding states it’s hard, I did find one breeder I had liked but being an exceptional breeder any horse or foal she had for sale was either sold or pending a sale, so I figure it might be better to breed my mare as I know her.

Im just trying to decide right and if I do decide to breed her then I’ll call the vet have a Breeding soundness exam done and if he gives an all clear then I’ll most likely breed her but if he says somethings wrong or whatever else then I won’t breed

[Training_Cupid]

I wouldn’t risk it at that age personally, especially if it’s been a few years since her last foal.

[Scribbler]

If you hold the TB papers you could breed her to another TB. But quite often the papers do not follow TBs who are sold away from track trainers.

If you bred her to a Friesian or Friesian cross I don’t think there is any registry for that, unless someone has recently invented one.

Two registered horses of different breeds don’t make a purebred anything anymore than all the pitbull/Chihuahua crosses at the SPCA.

Honestly you are better off buying a yearling from a reputable breeder. You can research both parents and see if they have performance bloodlines.

[allons-y]

Bottom line? Why should we breed a horse of any age? Far too many headed for the meat market as it is. Two of mine were headed there. Registered OTTB, and registered Paint. We don’t need more horses, we need more good homes for the ones out there, falling through the cracks.

But if you must, research carefully and try to breed a great horse. Then train him well. That will help him keep a job and keep him safe. Good luck.

[Texarkana]

@Scribbler

If you hold the TB papers you could breed her to another TB. But quite often the papers do not follow TBs who are sold away from track trainers.

You don’t need to hold a mare’s JC foal papers to breed a registered TB.

You just need to update the mare ownership info online so the report gets sent to the right place.

Most other registries will require a copy of foal papers to breed the mare for a registerable cross, though. (WB, etc. )

[skydy]

TBxFreisian is not a good “bet” for eventing ,and it will be a gamble. You should know this if you are even thinking of breeding for an eventer.

It will also not be eligible for TB papers. The Jockey Club doesn’t do crosses. What you are proposing to do is to breed a grade foal that at best can be “registered” as a half Freisian. There are enough grade horses in the world already (and there are some good ones) however an amateur breeder trying to breed a grade animal for a specific discipline is, in my opinion, very unwise.

I say no, you shouldn’t breed the mare.

[Manybees]

I think the biggest thing with breeding older mares- more than foaling complications- is they are less likely to get pregnant, and if they do go in foal, they are more likely than younger mares to lose the foal before 60 days. Your plan to have a breeding soundness exam before making any decisions is a good one, and your vet can provide advice on the risks to the mare going forward. If you do plan to breed her this season you should probably do this soon, as it is getting a bit late in the year, especially if she takes a cycle or two to settle. Good luck with your decision making.

[Scribbler]

I am not sure why people want Friesians for riding other than they are big and hairy. Especially for eventing. A warmblood stallion would be a better bet.

[Highflyer]

It’s getting very late to breed this year, especially since you haven’t even done a vet exam yet. That means your mare will likely be 23 when she’s bred and 24 when she foals. The longer she’s been barren, the tougher it will likely be to get her in foal. She’ll be at greater risk to lose the pregnancy as well.

A Friesian/ TB cross involves two very dissimilar breeds/ types and is risky since you often get the worst attributes of both breeds. Even if you can afford to produce something that will never physically be suited to your sport, and support it for thirty years, why would you want to?

[NancyM]

It’s a free country, you can do as you like. TB X Friesian wouldn’t be my choice for a cross, but there are some people around would argue with that, I am sure- there always are. Is it a good idea and will it work out well, with everyone happy and alive afterwards? Unknown in advance.

Risk is inherent in breeding horses. If you can not accept that, best not to breed horses. The risk of loss is the risk of loss of life, economic loss, and emotional loss. The pay off is success- joy, success in competition, economic bonus.

The choice is yours. Will the mare become pregnant? Will she carry to term? Will she survive foaling? Will the foal survive foaling? Do you know how to care for a pregnant mare and feed and train a young horse? Can you afford the vet bills should things go badly? Will you produce a quality foal in someone’s opinion other than yours? The answers to these questions are unknown to us here in internet-land. It does no good for anyone to produce a foal that ONLY YOU feel has value, because times change and you may need to sell this foal at some point in the future, even if that is not your plan at the moment. If you can’t find someone else who thinks the horse has value, then you are only breeding a meat horse (which lots of people do, apparently- I see meat horses being bred (in my opinion) all the time). Horses without value to someone for something still have value for meat. Starting with a TB mare is a good place to start, TBs and TB crosses to a variety of other breeds can be marketable for sport, if the mare has quality and all else is successfully looked after. Using an experienced mare, who has successfully produced and raised foals in the past is a good place to start. Older mares carry some risks that younger mares may not, but have other advantages that younger mares may not have.

IMO, a mare must prove herself in some way, in her owner’s eyes, to earn the right to reproduce. If this mare has done that in your opinion, then one may start to accept the risks involved in breeding her. You, as the owner, must make the best decisions you can for her in terms of a stallion, taking into account economic factors, her flaws, and the stallion’s flaws (all horses have flaws). You have researched the history and performance of the families of both horses, and hopefully met a few of the offspring of both yourself. You have a history of competitive success yourself, in your discipline of choice, so that you have some idea of exactly what you are wanting to produce, what you are looking for. This is called “experience in the equine industry”, and those without it probably should not be breeding horses.

[Scribbler]

It occurs to me this mare was probably a brood mare for a breeder up through her teens, and was retired because breeding farms don’t usually breed 23 year old mares. OP may have got her via an auction or cheap or free from the breeder. If she was a race horse broodmare that says she was considered a nice enough race horse, though it doesn’t tell us a lot about her jumping or dressage potential.

However mare may have been retired from raising babies because she failed to conceive or was starting to show risks or other medical reasons. Would be useful for OP to know and to contact the breeding farm.

[2DogsFarm]

Agreeing with everyone here ixnaying the idea by suggesting not the best thing for the mare.

Many years ago a friend bred her large (16H+) older (10ish, IIRC) maiden TB mare to a WB.
Foal was so large she had horrible complications, foal was born dead, mare lost the ability to be bred ever again.

Also consider carefully what @Highflyer said:
Absolutely no guarantee foal can do what you would like.
Then what?

And I have to ask why you feel breeders wouldn’t be able to show you stallions.
Most of the ads I see prominently mention the onsite studs & broodmares as well as their get.
I’d expect you could view the sire AND dam of any baby you were interested in.

But even then we still circle back to @Highflyer 's point about getting a baby who can do what you want.
Odds are better, but not every foal out of great mares by great sires goes on to be great as well.
Just peek at all the purpose-bred Seattle Slew babies* doing well at anything but racing.

*had a grandson myself (with Mr Prospector in the mix as well) - 20 starts, 1 2nd.
Bought to resell as a Hunter, until my partner of the time bought me out.

[rememberthenight]

Can you? Yeah, you may be able to get her bred- depending on her cytology and biopsy results.

There are older mares who have foals well into their mid twenties. I have had a few, they did have poorer biopsies, so it could take more cycles and often lower IgG in their foals. Placentitis is always a possibility and maintaining her condition throughout the pregnancy and through weaning may be harder depending on many factors.

I love my friesians and know a few tb/friesian crosses and wouldn’t recommend them as an eventing horse-ever! The friesian crosses can have the same health issues as the Friesians and do not typically have the endurance or the ablility to safely condition up as an eventing horse requires. Small heart and lungs. Love them(I have two- hopefully three soon) but Friesians are not easy to keep.

[GramV]

Besides the cross issues named above, my guess is you could spend a lot of time and money trying to breed her and not get her pregnant. The older mares (as in 20’s) I know of that got pregnant were kept that way. Once they stop, they seem very difficult to get pregnant.

My mare had 5 foals, 2 with me. When I tried to rebreed her one more time at 16, I spent about $5,000 trying to get her pregnant and failed. She was the easiest breeder ever and it was prime conditions. A 22 year old you personally have never bred before seems like a money pit.

[goodpony]

My stallion bred a 23yo Maiden Mare this year (there were some special circumstances so i allowed my client to try, i would speak to any client trying to breed an older mare including a maiden about some of the risks and pitfalls). The mare is happily in foal with no complications that i am aware of. Was first cycle conception too.

[Fred]

You can breed her, but I would not, for all the reasons already mentioned. She sounds like a lovely mare, and she has done her duty. I don’t think it would be fair to her to put her at risk at this point in her life.

Speaking personally as a breeder, 20 for me is the cut off point.The mare is retired after that, happy and healthy.

[RPM]

The “15.5 hands” in the OP bothers me. Did anyone else notice it? Most people would have put “15.2 hands.”

That, and the desire to breed the TB mare to a Friesian, says “not-very-knowledgeable horse person” to me. It also reminds me of a dialogue I overheard at a show one day: one person mentioned he’d like to have a TB-Friesian cross, and the other person said, “WHY?”

[Laurierace]

So many no’s in one post.