24yro Shetland quidding despite multiple teeth floats

[Lauruffian]

We adopted a small 24yro shetland gelding this past May. He came to us in some need of groceries, sheath cleaning, vet visits, and serious grooming, but he’s turned around nicely. The puzzling thing is, he continues to quid his hay to a ridiculous extent despite the float.

The vet came out twice in the first month we had him; first time was for exam, shots, and the like; second time was for anything requiring sedation as at the first visit, it was too hot for her to feel comfortable doing that with an older underweight pony. She assumed he must have bad teeth in the back (previous owner had his teeth floated about 6mos before, but the guy who did it doesn’t sedate so likely didn’t get in to the back teeth), so when she returned he was sedated and given a thorough dental exam with a speculum. He had some need for a float in back, but nothing severe–no ulcers, no loose teeth, no rotting teeth, nothing. In fact, his teeth were in some ways better than our 20yro mini mare’s–and she’s had regular dental care her whole 15 years with us. The vet thought maybe the little bit of floating she did might be enough to end the quidding and said to give it a few weeks, but alas, he’s quidding as much if not more than ever.

The vet is vexed and so are we. He doesn’t seem painful when eating, just ridiculously sloppy. The majority of his feed is pellets and low starch senior feed to make sure he’s getting the calories he needs, but we still give him hay as he likes to graze–despite all the spitting out.

Any ideas on what else we could be checking for?

Some other background info: 1) He has a fly allergy, so his eyes are often weepy. The vet flushed his ducts and we used a prescription steroid to help with swelling, but it seems the main thing he needs is a fly mask and for fly season to just be over already. 2) He has a cataract forming in his left eye. 3) He has some sort of skin condition (likely due to flies again I’m guessing) that makes him have a crazy amount of dander. Baths and regular grooming have made it 80% better, though.

[jawa]

The pony may have worn off the grinding surface of his teeth. If the teeth are smooth, squeak when you rub your exam gloved finger across them, they aren’t going to do a very good job of grinding hay.

I have a 32 yo large pony that has been dealing with smooth teeth for many years. Things that help him to make the most of his forage:

1. I keep my pastures mowed regularly. This keeps the grass short enough and also in the growing stage so it doesn’t get stemmy. He is able to eat plenty and get decent nutrition out of the grass if I maintain the pasture this way.

2. If the hay is stemmy or coarse, he quids ALOT. If the hay is a finer texture, he will still quid some, but seems to manage eating a good portion of it. If he eats too much stemmy, coarse hay, it irritates his gut and he ends up with liquid farts. It is not a pretty thing, especially on a grey.

3. During the summer he gets 5 lbs of short stem fiber to help his gut health, since his teeth aren’t able to do that for him. During the winter, I up his short stem fiber to whatever helps him to maintain his weight since he’s not getting much nutrition/calories from the grass. So far I’ve been able to get by with 6-10lbs depending on the weather and hay I’m able to source.

[4LeafCloverFarm]

My senior horse (now 28+) has to have the finest of hay - like needle thin. Anything with thicker stems or leaves he quids (not badly and frequently, but waste becomes an issue as he sorts out what he will eat and leaves the rest).

I use chopped, bagged alfalfa (Standlee - its very, very finely chopped) and get whatever the thinnest stemmed, softest hay I can find (which this winter will be Bermuda). He does not quid on a really fine hay.

Good luck with your pony. And would love to see a picture (that is an actual rule you know - when you talk about your pony, we have to see a picture of him/her).

[JB]

I’m assuming that his good bill of dental health includes the grinding surface of his teeth?

If so, then I would suspect something about his jaw or poll makes it uncomfortable to chew well, so that’s what I’d look into next.

[Lauruffian]

Obligatory pony pics! This is after a couple months of baths, grooming, groceries, foot care, etc.

The surface of his teeth hadn’t occurred to me. I’ll ask the vet and try and check myself (he’s a bit headshy–but at only 40" tall it’s not too hard to manage), but I know she ran her fingers over his teeth. I’d think she’d have noticed if the surface was smooth, but hey, it’s definitely worth checking, as is checking his poll and jaw as JB suggested.

FWIW he’s on alfalfa/bermuda pellets (much to my no-alfalfa-for-you, diagnosed-EMS-mini’s chagrin), low starch senior feed, and straight orchard hay. The hay is pretty fine and soft IMO, at least compared to the stemmier stuff I’ve seen. We need it fine like this for my mini, who has a tooth going bad-but-not-ready-to-pull-yet. Funny, we noticed her quids a while back–5-8 quids a day seemed like a lot. For him…well, it’s dozens. :o

[4LeafCloverFarm]

He’s a cutie pie!

Last year when we had a devil of a time late fall/early winter finding suitable hay, my vet suggested just adding a lunch meal of alfalfa pellets soaked if I was worried about him not taking in enough of the hay or if I begin to notice weight loss. Vet said the quidding isn’t typically dangerous, and certainly not as alarming as I found it to be. My horse doesn’t really have anything to float properly, has some tooth loss, and as noted above, smoothing of the molars that are left. But we still check his teeth twice a year, regardless.

He does super in the summer on his 4 acre pasture - fairly easy keeper. But come winter, needs nearly 3 times the feed, once our grass goes dormant and doesn’t have much nutritional value. So air fern in summer, hard keeper in winter. Changing my blanketing routine has helped somewhat (sheets and blankets for higher temps than I used to).

[Chall]

Muscles and maybe sensation loss in his lips, checks? Like after we get a numbing shot from the dentist and drool and can’t talk.
And in very old age in humans, the coordination isn’t there.
i really don’t know what I’m talking about just guessing.

[Postandrails]

He’s adorable! I had a 30 year old who started having issues with quidding. I found that she had no trouble when the hay was in a small hole haynet - forcing her to take much smaller mouthfuls stopped the problem. If you want to be able to keep some hay in front of him, it is definitely worth trying a small hole net.

[pony_baloney]

Will you be soaking the pellets? If not I’d be worried about him not chewing them thoroughly and causing a choke episode when they swell.

[Lauruffian]

@pony baloney

Will you be soaking the pellets? If not I’d be worried about him not chewing them thoroughly and causing a choke episode when they swell.

Yes, absolutely. I learned by lesson about a decade ago with an episode of choke in my late mare. It ended fine, but it was scary for bit. Not interested in reliving the past!

[EquineJunky]

Has the vet also watched him in the act of chewing? Sometimes you can notice they are favoring chewing on one side vs the other or exaggerated motion of the jaw in a particular direction that might give some clues.

[Lauruffian]

@EquineJunky

Has the vet also watched him in the act of chewing? Sometimes you can notice they are favoring chewing on one side vs the other or exaggerated motion of the jaw in a particular direction that might give some clues.

You reminded me! I had a couple videos I tried to show her, but they were taken when it was dark outside which made them hard to see, and viewing them outdoors in bright morning sun was basically impossible. I mentioned emailing them and she was very enthusiastic. Then I forgot until I saw your comment.

The video I chose best shows his weird, sloppy chewing behavior. He chews with his mouth open and tongue moving about, and even though he was eating just pellets, carrots, and senior feed in the pic, you can see very wet pulverized bits just dropping with drool.

[JB]

Has he always had the sloppy eating behavior? I have one gelding who, for the 14 years I’ve had him, is just sloppy - mouth open, lips flapping, food falling out. My mare is very tidy, she keeps her lips (mostly) closed so she doesn’t lose anything. Her son is more like the gelding, just not as bad. My other gelding used to be tidy when he was eating small meals, some alfalfa pellets, v/m powder, supplements. Since he’s graduated to a bigger meal of VERY YUMMY Triple Crown Sr, well-soaked, he has food falling out all over the place.

[DinkyDonk]

My mare is a sloppy eater, dropping feed everywhere which my fat little mini donks would hoover up; started feeding her out of a nose bag/feed bag–problem solved. No mess, no waste, no extra unneeded goodies for the little fatties.

[JB]

Mine are fed inside, so I just sweep bedding off the mat where they eat, and they clean it up from there.

[Lauruffian]

@JB

Has he always had the sloppy eating behavior? I have one gelding who, for the 14 years I’ve had him, is just sloppy - mouth open, lips flapping, food falling out. My mare is very tidy, she keeps her lips (mostly) closed so she doesn’t lose anything. Her son is more like the gelding, just not as bad. My other gelding used to be tidy when he was eating small meals, some alfalfa pellets, v/m powder, supplements. Since he’s graduated to a bigger meal of VERY YUMMY Triple Crown Sr, well-soaked, he has food falling out all over the place.

Maybe…? Unfortunately we just adopted him in May, so we didn’t know what was normal for him. He came to us off a 100+ acre property in the semi-desert out here in Southern California, where he was out with a couple dozen other ponies. They just threw hay and such so there wasn’t a lot of individual attention going on.