& as of right now “Someone” is still the sole bid.
@skydy ?
How is he getting anything but Bad Press here?
Someone above noted that the first bid at the opening price came in shortly after the horse was posted. My assumption (maybe ASSumption) is that it is a shill bid to make it look like there is interest. Even if shill bids are against the rules (almost always they are), that is very hard to enforce.
Auctions are a fascinating study in human behavior. The entire concept of an auction is based less on finding a market value and getting something sold, than it is on how people respond to what other people around them are doing.
Auctions are designed to create this irresistible, natural, emotional reaction to the way other people are demonstrating their perception of value and want. This is why shill bidding is such a thing in auctions. Any bidding looks like this item has value, is something people would want to have.
Active bidding really matters to getting people into the bidding, and/or getting them to pay more. Bidding indicates that this item must have value, otherwise why would the bidders be interested.
If there the bids on Falcon are few and scattered in time, I would assume that at least some, maybe all, bids are shills. To make it look as if other people see value in Falcon, monetary or otherwise. Shill bidding is almost always against the rules but it’s hard to enforce.
Some auctions allow a seller to bid on their own item, with the understanding that if the seller wins the item (no one overbids their last bid), they will pay the commission to the auctioneer as if it were a real sale. Basically, they ‘buy the item back’. It’s a way of setting a reserve where there is none, or if the reserve is lower than the seller is willing to sell for. Sometimes sellers decide their reserve is too low while the auction is in progress (auctioneers hate this though).
It’s interesting that this auction is continuing for a such a long period. Normally it hurts rather than helps auction value to drag out the process. But I’m sure this company has their reasons why this method, across the Christmas holiday no less, is productive for them.
At the close of bidding is when one finds out the real interest in an item. No one who is actually interested in buying (and who understands auctions) will put in their maximum bid until they an idea of what everyone else is willing to pay, their best guess from the bidding. Even though the bidding may spike substantially in the last few minutes before the deadline. (Ebay auction bid histories show this on items for which there is competition.)
If there isn’t widespread interest, there are likely to be no further bids as the deadline approaches. Bidders have already decided they aren’t interested in paying more than their previous bids.
But if there is some general interest in an item, right against the deadline there is likely to be a storm of bidding. People who want the item but who don’t want to overpay will keep upping the last bid until they hit their limit.
The bidding in the moments before the deadline is the time that people are most likely to go over their limit, to pay more than they would have in a less heated environment. Because they become emotionally competitive and acquisitive against the other bidders in a pressured environment, created by the deadline. This is the moment that auctions are designed to create and exploit. 
The person who “wins” the bidding war and buys the item is called the “winner”. But what did they ‘win’ ? - the right to pay for something they want? Is that what a sports game winner wins? The term “winner” and “win” are based on the human psychology of auctions. The ‘winner’ is the one willing to pay the highest price – interesting concept of a ‘winner’. But that’s who auction watchers and participants perceive it. 
Or, someone decides to drop a huge overbid in near the end, chasing all other bidders away, because they are the only bidder willing to pay that much. They will ‘overpay’ to make sure that they are the buyer, that the others drop out and don’t get caught up in a bidding war. The alternative to this is to keep upping the last bid by a little bit until all others drop out - actually engage in the bidding war. However the winner may actually pay more that way, because other bidders are emotionally bidding over their pre-decided limit. (Dropping in a big bid early won’t guarantee a win, just that the big bidder may be ambushed with larger bids 30 seconds before the deadline.)
I find auctions – of anything, even tiddly winks – to be one of the most fascinating things to watch that there is. Very quickly you can see the different psychological approaches of the various bidders, in their quest to get what they want, and avoid negatives.
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Very interesting post on the psychology of bidding @OverandOnward.
For posters complaining of “shill bidding”,
It is fine for people (or their friends) to bid on their horses at the very high end TB sales, so the fact that “shill bidding” is allowed by this auction doesn’t necessarily make this a dubious company.
The TB sales announce the rules prior to the sale. The rules are also printed in the Terms and Conditions section of the sale catalog and on the website. Both Fasig Tipton and Keeneland Sales have rules allowing people to bid on their own horses.
In this case I don’t know if the rules for the auction are written down, but, like so many things in life, people need to do their due diligence before buying.
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It’s just that some inexperienced people, because of the “Bad Press” and the link to the auction, may be tricked into paying much more than they should, to “rescue the horse” thus rewarding this horrible twit monetarily, when he should not be rewarded in any manner for what he’s done.
Hopefully people won’t be ripped off by this guy anymore, and hopefully he’ll stay away from horses from now on.
I bet that he’ll take what he can get if no one bids this horse any higher. It sure looks like buying a bunch of vet bills to me.
I hope it’s his former owner who has bid. If no one else bids, former owner may get him back. Let’s hope. 
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One thing I’ve learned from watching online auctions for horses, the last couple of minutes is all that matters. I’m sure much the same for anything else.
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If you read the bidding rules, any bids in the last 10 minutes add 2 minutes to the deadline.
Also, looking through the other horses, there is one halflinger that looks it needs a diet badly.
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I did not know that this auction allows shill bidding – and I find that hard to believe, as if so, buyers are not likely to participate. Or is it just that owners are allowed to bid on their own horse?
Shill bidding refers on bids from someone who does not intend to buy the horse. Someone who appears to be a genuine prospective buyer. Otherwise it isn’t a shill. Shills don’t want to win. They want to get others bidding and then drop out.
Because a shill isn’t going to buy the horse, they are falsely building up the price. Allowing shills is unfairly inflating buyer prices. Buyers want to bid against other genuine buyers, not people who are just there to dishonestly inflate the bid price. If the other bidders think that shills are in the bids, they will make it known that they are very, very unhappy, and will probably walk away from the auction.
The rules are written down somewhere, or there isn’t an auction. They should be available to the public. But often they are hard to come by unless one is a consignor or a bidder.
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Yes, a beautiful old estate in our town auctioned dozens of antiques via online auction a couple of months ago. A few items I was bidding in the $250 range for seemed in my reach until the last five minutes, when some went for several thousand when things ended. They sat with minimal or even no bids for the first 9 days of the auction.
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Here is the line from “conditions of sale” from Fasig Tipton.
"This sale is an auction with reserve and any Consignor, including owners and their agents, has the right to
bid or establish a reserve, i.e., a price below which a horse will not be sold.
Definition of “Agent”; AGENT means any trainer, consignor, bloodstock agent,
racing or stud manager or other person or entity who represents a Principal in
an Equine Auction Sale, directly or indirectly, whether the Agent is paid by way
of retainer, commission or other forms of remuneration, or has ongoing financial
arrangements such as training, management or similar fees"
They announce this at every TB auction I’ve watched online, before they begin the sale.
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I take the above to mean that, under the auction rules, your friend can bid on your horse and you can take them out to dinner for their trouble.
Completely agree Cereal shouldn’t gain a single cent.
But as the sale hopefully means a better life for Falcon, let him have his money & fade back into obscurity.
NWIH he’ll get anywhere near his $60K brag price posted on Dreamhorse (and removed by same after flagged by the community).
In a live auction a shill might bid up a price, but as time is measured in minutes not days, shills drop out pretty quick, if they bid at all.
Which makes any online auction a joke to me if horses are involved.
I know people do buy horses sight unseen, off the internet, but I’ll never be one of them.
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I’m with you there. I can’t imagine buying any of the horses in that auction without a thorough exam from a vet, one not affiliated with the seller.
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Absolutely not. This is chicanery, dishonest to the true bidder/buyers, and a way to trash one’s own reputation in the business. And end up outed in articles in Blood Horse. Maybe get sued, even prosecuted in states where shill bidding is illegal at certain $ thresholds.
I think you have misunderstood what is meant by the wording of your first post quoted above.
or other person or entity who represents a Principal in
an Equine Auction Sale
‘Agents’ or other representatives are not there as personal friends. Representing a horse owner is a legal term, with a legal contract, and must be documented with the auction house.
People other than the agent or legal representative can’t act or bid on the owner’s behalf. The owner’s personal friends have no legal standing if they are not agents/representatives. They are just another attendee.
If someone other than an agent or representative makes a bid, they are offering to buy the horse at that price. If they win, they buy it.
Of course a consignor/seller may establish a reserve below which they won’t sell. That can be termed as a ‘bid’ by the auction house. Even if the ‘reserve bid’ isn’t shared with the public, for all practical purposes every bidder has been ‘outbid’ by the reserve bid, until they are bidding above that price.
The wording in the top quote allows a consignor or their agent/representative to add to their reserve amount, or establish a reserve if they didn’t do it ahead of time, by bidding during the auction. The auctioneer knows the bid is coming in from or on behalf of the consignor. They should announce to the other bidders that it’s a “seller’s bid”. But in that case, if the consignor wins the bidding, they are ‘buying the horse back’ and owe the fees due if the horse actually sold for that price.
These terms are in the consignor’s contract. You can see the contract if you inquire about becoming a consignor.
The announcements at the beginning let the bidders know that reserve prices may be in effect for some or all horses for sale.
Not that dirty sellers don’t sometimes try to use a shill bidder. There will be serious repercussions if someone catches them at it. The penalties are written into the consignor’s contract. At minimum the consignor will be kicked out of the auction and not allowed to sell there again. At worst, they could be sued. In some states they can be prosecuted.
Interesting that this online horse auction service has steps to prevent shill bidding.
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What do you think is meant by the terms “directly or indirectly”? What would an agent representing a Principal in an “indirect” manner be?
It is clear that owners and their agents can bid on their own horse and bring it right up to the reserve, isn’t it?
I’ll listen carefully next time to the exact verbiage used by the sale people before the sale begins.
There is no dispute here, these are all well-defined auction protocols. These are legal terms and don’t address friendships or casual unofficial behavior. I’m going to hand this back to you to research on your own. There is a lot of info on the internet about auctions. In addition to participating in auctions if you ever have something you want to buy or sell in one.
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I’m reading the terms of sale directly from the auction houses. No sweat.
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Auction now shows “By Proxy”
FB poster says this means system will raise your bid automatically.
Still just the original bid.
I’m thinking Idjit is trying to up his own bid 
13 days left… Tick tick tick… 
Regardless of shill bidding, at the end of the day, the person who bid the highest when the hammer falls has to pay. Sure someone can bid up the asking, but no one is holding other bidders feet to the fire to continue raising their number to bid. And the owner/agent/consignor can and I am sure have in the past been left to purchase their own lot number in past auctions due to this practice. If a bidder is enticed to continue to bid on a lot number due to an agent bidding up the ask, that is on them. They know how much they can spend and if they fall for psychology of it, that is on them.
number one thing you learn in business school is “something is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it”. End of story regardless of shill bidding.
You guys give Ceral waaaay to much credit in my book. He could not even pack correctly for his trip that he “planned months for” yet you all think he’s going to be able to organise bidders to jack up the price on an online auction and NOT get stuck with Falcon when the hammer falls.
AND this is even if he meets and goes over the reserve.
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What credit are you talking about?
Where has anyone in thus thread given him any credit whatsoever?
Is it known which bidder is the automated system raising every bid that is below the reserve? That is what a human auctioneer will also do if there is no competitive bidder, and you can usually tell that it’s the auctioneer, not a buyer. Sometimes they say so.
The automated increases let the last bidder know that they haven’t bid enough to buy the item.
He doesn’t have to up his own bid if they have not yet met the reserve. The system will do that for him.
Once the reserve is met, that’s when he can jump in and up-bid on his own. The rules let the other buyers know that sellers are allowed to do that. That’s not shill bidding, because people know, and if the seller wins, the seller will be taking the horse home unsold.
Depending on the situation, it can feel weird to be bidding against the person who brought the item to sell. But OK, if they win, they don’t sell their item.
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