30-day notice. WWYD?

[Sylvester]

I moved to my current barn 2+ years ago, and signed a boarding contract that had no notice provisions in it. The barn owner said that if you don’t want to be there, then you should leave. He did not care about notice.

Earlier this year, owner leased barn to a fellow boarder (“FB”). When FB took over, he immediately raised the board 21% without notice.

FB does not know how to run a barn and allowed the sole jumper trainer to run it. FB and jumper trainer had a falling out and trainer left. I did not know who would be running the barn upon trainer’s departure; and because I was traveling out of the country in the next few weeks, I moved my horse temporarily to my trainer. I paid full board for that first month, and when FB charged me full board for the next month, I asked that I only be charged for a dry stall. (Horse was away for four full weeks.) He finally agreed.

When I returned, two new jump trainers were brought in, and they are running the barn. There are two rings both full of jump courses. There are lessons and training rides going on all the time. I try to schedule my rides early in the morning or around their schedules. It is not possible to practice a test because of how many jumps are in the arenas. They jump the big jumps, and it is not safe to ride while they jump.

While I was away, he raised the board again without notice 1.5% for a “surcharge”. Then this month he tacked on extra fees directed only to me as the only dressage rider in a jumper barn. If I want to bring in a dressage instructor, I must pay $60 each time; if my friend hauls in to take a lesson with me, an extra $75 each time. (There are no other dressage riders and no dressage instructors at this barn.) I see this as another board increase. I understand charging a ring fee of say $15–but $75?

I fully expect FB will raise the board again at the beginning of the year at least 10%. It’s a busy, fancy, expensive barn. It is by far the most expensive barn in the area. I fully expect that when FB’s lease is up in a year that he will not renew the lease and will exit the boarding business.

In his communications to boarders, he has stated that boarders need to give 30 days notice when leaving. I gave my 30 day notice mid November. FB wants me to pay through the end of the year full board. I have no boarding contract with FB, and the old contract was not assigned to him.

Assuming we leave at the end of November, WWYD:

1. Pay full board for all of December.
2. Pay pro-rated December board at the full rate.
3. Pay dry stall fee for December comparable to what was previously negotiated (four weeks).
4. Pay dry stall fee pro-rated for December.
5. Pay nothing for December.

[Cheerfulmelody]

Pay nothing. They have zero hold over you for a single dollar more.

[endlessclimb]

Pro rated full rate. 30 days is 30 days. He doesn’t get to make up what 30 days means.

This only to avoid burning bridges. The horse world is small, and contract or not he has asked for boarders to give 30 days.

[anonevent]

Since you told them that you were giving them 30 day notice - #2.

[Horsegirl_s_Mom]

@anonevent

Since you told them that you were giving them 30 day notice - #2.

This is a good point. If you said you were giving 30 days’ notice, it looks like you were acquiescing to this requirement.

Remember that not all contracts have to be in writing. Contracts can be formed by actions (i.e., he states the rules and you conform to them).

You could try to negotiate paying the dry stall amount. How motivated would they be to come after you for the rest, and how much importance do you place on keeping good relations? They might be more willing to let it go if they have another boarder lined up.

[trubandloki]

@Sylvester

I moved to my current barn 2+ years ago, and signed a boarding contract that had no notice provisions in it. The barn owner said that if you don’t want to be there, then you should leave. He did not care about notice.

Earlier this year, owner leased barn to a fellow boarder (“FB”). When FB took over, he immediately raised the board 21% without notice.

FB does not know how to run a barn and allowed the sole jumper trainer to run it. FB and jumper trainer had a falling out and trainer left. I did not know who would be running the barn upon trainer’s departure; and because I was traveling out of the country in the next few weeks, I moved my horse temporarily to my trainer. I paid full board for that first month, and when FB charged me full board for the next month, I asked that I only be charged for a dry stall. (Horse was away for four full weeks.) He finally agreed.

When I returned, two new jump trainers were brought in, and they are running the barn. There are two rings both full of jump courses. There are lessons and training rides going on all the time. I try to schedule my rides early in the morning or around their schedules. It is not possible to practice a test because of how many jumps are in the arenas. They jump the big jumps, and it is not safe to ride while they jump.

While I was away, he raised the board again without notice 1.5% for a “surcharge”. Then this month he tacked on extra fees directed only to me as the only dressage rider in a jumper barn. If I want to bring in a dressage instructor, I must pay $60 each time; if my friend hauls in to take a lesson with me, an extra $75 each time. (There are no other dressage riders and no dressage instructors at this barn.) I see this as another board increase. I understand charging a ring fee of say $15–but $75?

I fully expect FB will raise the board again at the beginning of the year at least 10%. It’s a busy, fancy, expensive barn. It is by far the most expensive barn in the area. I fully expect that when FB’s lease is up in a year that he will not renew the lease and will exit the boarding business.

In his communications to boarders, he has stated that boarders need to give 30 days notice when leaving. I gave my 30 day notice mid November. FB wants me to pay through the end of the year full board. I have no boarding contract with FB, and the old contract was not assigned to him.

Assuming we leave at the end of November, WWYD:

1. Pay full board for all of December.
2. Pay pro-rated December board at the full rate.
3. Pay dry stall fee for December comparable to what was previously negotiated (four weeks).
4. Pay dry stall fee pro-rated for December.
5. Pay nothing for December.

I am all for not burning bridges in the horse world.

I also feel like 30 days notice is not actually 30 days from when you decide to say something, but it works like rent, and it 30 contract days so if you pay your board on the first of the month, your 30 days is an actual payment period, so in this case your notice would be about 45 days.

BUT…
Your boarding contract with this facility specifically states no notice is required.

Another BUT…
You told this barn manager you are giving 30 days notice.

In this situation I would likely pay half a month of dry stall and a full month of full board. (Assuming your are moving Dobbin before the end of December.)

[clanter]

By state law here (Texas) Boarding contracts usually require 30–90 days’ notice before leaving, but if there is no written and executed contract the boarder can give same-day notice.

Really OP needs to see just what stabling/livery laws govern their jurisdiction

[pluvinel]

@Sylvester

In his communications to boarders, he has stated that boarders need to give 30 days notice when leaving. I gave my 30 day notice mid November. FB wants me to pay through the end of the year full board. I have no boarding contract with FB, and the old contract was not assigned to him.
…

Saying so, doesn’t make it so. You have no signed contract with this legal entity, so there is no legal requirement for you to give notice or any stipulations of how much to pay.

However…you did give 30 days notice.

@Sylvester

…
Assuming we leave at the end of November, WWYD:

1. Pay full board for all of December.
2. Pay pro-rated December board at the full rate.
3. Pay dry stall fee for December comparable to what was previously negotiated (four weeks).
4. Pay dry stall fee pro-rated for December.
5. Pay nothing for December.

I would actually move the horse TODAY. Some people are very vindictive and take it out on the horse. In past moves, I have always arranged to move at the end of the month. I then give 30 days notice, move the horse, but paid for the following month. I removed the horse and my personal property the day I gave notice.

But you said you are leaving end of November. You gave 30-days notice in mid-November, so 2-weeks prior.

IMHO, you have 2 options.
1-Pay nothing for December as there is no legal requirement you do so. FB and trainers are being di**ks, so depending on your situation, this might be a good option. In this case, move your horse ASAP.
2-Pay for all Nov and 2 weeks board in December to honor your verbal (I assume) statement to vacate premises in 30 days.

I vote for #2 to keep your honor…though I might be tempted to do #1 because of their behavior and all the rate hikes and the surcharges addressed to you only.

But get this all in writing, have the FB sign it and make sure you provide documentation stating that there are no requirements to pay 2 weeks in December.

[OverandOnward]

What are the consequences of paying only for your own notice period?

My guess, some ugly phone calls and other communications, that will cease at some point.

Whatever the law or (non-existent) contracts, or this or that, it is more trouble and expense for them to go after you legally than is worth it to them.

If anyone in your horse world, who hears their version through the rumor mill, asks “hey what happened with that?” , you say “I did not have a contract with them and I honored my 30 day notice.” Discussion over, move to another subject.

[endlessclimb]

@trubandloki

I also feel like 30 days notice is not actually 30 days from when you decide to say something, but it works like rent, and it 30 contract days so if you pay your board on the first of the month, your 30 days is an actual payment period, so in this case your notice would be about 45 days.

I totally agree with you, but with no contract stating such all OP has is “30 days”. I’d pay that in full, and be done.

The half month dry stall in addition to the actual 30 days is a somewhat reasonable compromise, but with all the other nickel and diming I would only pay what was required. To me it’s clear they wanted OP out.

[OverandOnward]

@endlessclimb

To me it’s clear they wanted OP out.

This is what it comes down to, for me as well.

Although for whatever reason they seem to be ready to let her be there if she will stay and pay. And pay and pay and pay. The radical over-charging was a weird way to tell her to ‘git’, imo.

[hillary_again]

It’s clear that they want you to leave. I would leave as soon as I could. You’ve paid till the end of November, correct? I would get my horse out and let them send you a bill for what you owe and then see if you want to pay it. Repeat: leave as soon as you can. This whole situation is a drag on you, more than you realize. Maybe they have someone waiting for your stall.

[Paint_Party]

I would also be out of there ASAP. It seems they’ve been nudging you out for a while. I wouldn’t be dramatic about it. Just make it be convenient for your horse to leave sooner than later.

But I do think you owe a full last month board. I’d hand that over as you leave. Done and done.

Between now and then, perhaps you can diplomatically negotiate for the dry stall rate. Chances are your stall will be filled with another horse before your dust settles in the driveway.

[RedHorses]

#2. Pay the remnant of the thirty days on the day you remove your horse (provided you are leaving on or before November 30).

For future reference, you aren’t obligated to give 30 days notice if the board rate increases and you choose to leave prior to the increase effective date.

[enjoytheride]

Frankly, no matter what you do he is going to bad mouth you. So do what makes sense to you and leave right now.

In the middle of a barn meltdown I gave 30 days notice despite not having any sort of contract and the barn owner quit feeding my horse immediately. They lost 15 boarders in less than 30 days and tried to force me to sign a 6 month notice contract (yes, really). I never said a single bad thing to anyone until I left and had told them I was leaving as I was switching disciplines. They still stopped feeding my horse.

[merrygoround]

I’m with Judge Judy , if it’s not in written contract signed by you, it doesn’t exist. Therefore, you owe no notice, but since you have given it, I would pay the 30 days, ONLY.

But leave now, if you can afford it.

[clanter]

[quote=“merrygoround, post:16, topic:801131”]
I’m with Judge Judy , if it’s not in written contract signed by you, it doesn’t exist. [/quote]

I believe Judge Judy is in California ?

There are states where a verbal agreement is as enforceable as written contract,

Louisiana LA Civ Code Art. 1927 (revised 2023)

A contract is formed by the consent of the parties established through offer and acceptance.

Unless the law prescribes a certain formality for the intended contract, offer and acceptance may be made orally, in writing, or by action or inaction that under the circumstances is clearly indicative of consent.

one really needs to check just what is enforceable in their jurisdiction rather than assuming

[merrygoround]

Just because one person says they want 30 days notice does not signify that the other person agrees. If you say you want to rent my house, and I don’t answer, does not mean that I have agree

That’s why written contracts came about.

And Yes, I believe JJ is in CA.

[OverandOnward]

Will say again – whatever written, implied, verbal, nodded-when-you-mentioned-it, agreement/contract someone thinks exists …

… this one is not likely to produce any other comeback than bad-mouthing. If you already have a good reputation in the community, the bad-mouthing just makes the bad-mouths look bad.

Don’t worry about them. Just take care of yourself and your horse and let the chips fall. There aren’t very many chips here to fall, anyway. Any maybe-chips are as dry and light as three-year-old range droppings.

Breaking a contract (that does or does not exist) is a civil matter. If someone doesn’t already know how, it takes some resources of time and money to pursue it. There is a good chance that no one ever acts legally on many ‘broken contracts’. And there may not be a contract to break in this case, anyway.

I am guessing that the total amount of money in this ‘dispute’ is under $1,500.

[Horsegirl_s_Mom]

@clanter

I’m with Judge Judy , if it’s not in written contract signed by you, it doesn’t exist. [/quote]

I believe Judge Judy is in California ?

Oral contracts are enforceable in California. And assent can be manifested through conduct. Verbal Contracts - Enforceable? | Stimmel Law

The issue here is that the boarder said she was giving 30-day notice, which seems to indicate agreement to the FB’s 30-day notice requirement.

I think a small claims court would require her to pay through the 30 days. On the other hand, FB might not bother to pursue it.