4 month old puppy resource guarding

My 4 month old Heeler puppy has started to become aggressive with my older dogs. The older dogs are generally friendly, never start anything with him, and mind their own business.

I gave all 3 dogs pigs ears today and all was well for approximately 30 seconds. Then the puppy went after one of my older dogs, growling and lungeing. I WILL NOT accept this type of behavoir or a dog aggressive dog. My philosophy is that there are a million good dogs out there, why should I keep one that is aggressive?

I do love this puppy. In all other aspects he is very well behaved. I’ve put two months of training into him, and he’s otherwise growing up well. He plays well with other dogs (so far).

I’ve read that positive reinforcement is the way to go with this stuff but I only see that resulting in a more aggressive dog.

Anyone care to help with this? If things don’t get resolved I will have to rehome him.

You need a trainer if you don’t understand how positive reinforcement will help. I mean that with kindness… training is difficult to teach yourself through reading.

[QUOTE=arapaloosa_lady;8281674]
You need a trainer if you don’t understand how positive reinforcement will help. I mean that with kindness… training is difficult to teach yourself through reading.[/QUOTE]

^^^This. There’s probably stuff going on that you’re not seeing.

I wrote a blog post about resource guarding that disucsses tactics for managing resource guarding, which you can read here: http://fitdogblog.blogspot.ca/2015/06/resource-guarding-in-dogs.html

If you use negatice reinforcement for a dog that resource guards, you will simply get a worse resource guarder. Period. Positive reinforcement, correctly implemented is the way to go.

Also, if you know your dog has issues with resource guarding, why on earth would you give them a high value item (pig ear) and just expect it to go well? You need to set the dog up for success, before this becomes a problem that will cause you to rehome the dog or worse.

It’s tough dealing with a resource guarder. If you find my blog post helpful and want a bit more info, I would be happy to talk more about it with you.

You need to find a positive reinforcement trainer to help you, using negative reinforcement with a resource guarder will just make it worse. How much socialization have you done with your puppy? Also, what kind of enrichment?

Take a moment to think about resource guarding the way your dog sees it, lets say that you have a 100 dollar bill in your wallet and someone walks up and it takes. I expect your reaction would be less then “civil”. That 100 dollar bill is your puppy’s pig ear.

Here is some reading for you!
https://wildewmn.wordpress.com/2013/10/22/why-growling-is-good/
https://positively.com/dog-behavior/aggression/resource-guarding/
http://eileenanddogs.com/2014/09/19/effects-punishment/

A few books every puppy guardian should read!
Sophia Yin - Perfect Puppy in 7 Days
Patricia McConnell - Puppy Primer
Helen Zulch/Daniel Mills - Life Skills for Puppies
Debbie Martin/Kenneth Martin - Puppy Start Right
Leslie McDevitt - Control Unleashed Puppy Program
Dr Ian Dunbar - Before you get your Puppy
Dr Ian Dunbar - After you get your Puppy

Not a trainer but I will add that I knew someone who had a dog who displayed low level aggression. He warned with a growl and hackles when a dog got pushy. The owner corrected with a sharp yell and bumped him with her leg. He learned really quickly not to growl or put up his hackles. Instead he went straight for the attack. In the process of “not tolerating” warning signs she inadvertently taught the dog to skip his warning signs and go straight to a powerful bite.

[QUOTE=SAcres;8281637]

I’ve read that positive reinforcement is the way to go with this stuff but I only see that resulting in a more aggressive dog.

Anyone care to help with this? If things don’t get resolved I will have to rehome him.[/QUOTE]

My suggestion is to rehome him before this gets worse and you can’t rehome him. If +R is too difficult or you do not want to put the time in, don’t keep the dog.

Some years ago I had a 1 year old dog, big and a somewhat challenging breed. I gave him a bone and, because I had been taught dominance theory at the time, kept trying to take it away. Finally he grumbled and snapped. He didn’t bite down, but one tooth scratched me. I was extremely upset and went to a well respected behaviorist in my area. He observed the dog, had been to through some obedience commands, and told me to give him bones in a crate or not at all and work on adding high volume treats to his food. That was what I did. He lived with several female dogs over the course of his life and had a couple visiting males, and he was good with them (though they didn’t eat together). He was the best dog I have ever had in terms of NEVER getting grumbly or snappy out of pain or fear. He had a problem he was at the vet for once, and his vet told me he was the only patient she’d ever had that she would have done what she was doing without the dog heavily sedated and muzzled. A trainer told me once that I’d spend the rest of my life looking for a dog with a temperament like that. He has been gone almost 5 years now, and in truth he had the most solid temperament of any dog I’ve ever had. I did do a lot of work and he stayed very good with his food, and from then on if he had a bone in his kennel I’d take a treat with me and I never had another problem like that. He didn’t want other dogs close to the kennel of he had a bone.
That said, regime him. Have you ever had a cattle dog before? In my experience they can be tricky with other dogs and even strangers. They’re protective and territorial, which is probably where the resource guarding is coming from. That said, be careful. A lot of dogs might not be great sharing pig ears in a group. You may have 5 cattle dogs doing that now and be a far better trainer than I am. I just saw a golden in a crate getting grumbly about other dogs getting near the crate and his bone, and the owner when she wanted the bone. Dogs sometimes protect things like bones. It isn’t ideal, but it is common and while it can be worked on, it takes time and this particular puppy may not work for someone with no tolerance for aggression.

I have a rescue hound that has been with me since a puppy. He exhibited food aggression toward his litter mates at 4 WEEKS OLD. I worked hard at calming this behavior through getting him to accept my hand on his food dish etc. As he got older, and bigger, (70 lbs now), his idea of high value expanded beyond food to the couch, me, toys. I started correcting him according to the dominance theory. DID NOT WORK AT ALL. Made it worse. Then I read a bit about it and learned that it was far better to exchange value for value. I know it sounds all wrong, but if I want him off the couch, I give him a treat and he happily moves. I feed the three other dogs and him in specific spots in a specific order. I NEVER give treats to him in proximity with the others and they only get small half biscuits that they down immediately. When I finally let go of the idea of intimidating him out of resource guarding, things completely turned around and he is quite happy and reliable now. On the rare instance that I rush him or forget, he will let me know with a growl and I thank him for communicating with me, slow things down and we sort it out calmly and positively. I’m grateful that he’s forgiven the very harsh corrections initially and has come around to being treated fairly given his emotional makeup. It goes against my grain to not respond forcefully, but I’m happy that letting my ego go a bit has enabled him to remain happily in our home. He is a totally sweet fellow otherwise. I know this is an unacceptable situation to many, but everything I read about this kind of dog tells me that this is the right path and it has worked for him. You will save your dog’s life if you can implement the consistent advice given by many professionals online regarding how to interact with a resource guarder.

[QUOTE=SAcres;8281637]
My philosophy is that there are a million good dogs out there, why should I keep one that is aggressive?

Anyone care to help with this? If things don’t get resolved I will have to rehome him.[/QUOTE]

I hope you have a call in to your breeder already. For breed advice (you don’t mention the breeds of your other dogs but if this is your first Heeler there could be temperament issues that are different than your other dogs).

Secondly, the idea that you are already considering rehoming the dog after one incident is worrisome - maybe best to involve the breeder to find him another home now before he gets any older. Most breeders would prefer to rehome their own dogs themselves - especially if they suspect a temperament issue that needs evaluating before placing.

Patricia McConnell, stat.

RC Treatment and Prevention

My other dogs (a heeler/bc and an Akita) were trained with positive reinforcement training only and are amazing dogs. This puppy had been socialized since day one, has come to work with me, been around other dogs of all ages and sizes (male and female) and we’ve done basic obedience. He’s 100% on “drop it” “crate” “sit” and “paw” and 80% on “down” and “come”. He learns quickly and is super reliable most of the time. I’ve recieved nothing but compliments from his vet, my coworkers, and my barnmates.
I’ve rescued and trained a couple dogs to rehome, in general I know what I’m doing.

I will look into a trainer for him.

I don’t take the rehoming threat lightly. I don’t want to do something like that, but I absolutely will not tolerate an aggressive dog in the house. I have two dogs that have well deserved places in my home and I will not put them in danger.

This resource guarding is new. Before the pig ear incidence he had never tried to guard or gone after one of my other dogs. Since that incident he gets fed in a separate location of the house at a separate time from my other dogs. He’s carefully watched with all his toys and never given treats in close proximity to the other dogs.

I’m completely willing to work with him if I can fix this issue. What I’m not willing to do is deal with a dog that can’t be fed around other dogs, can’t be trusted around toys or treats with other dogs, and is generally dog aggressive.

My problem with positive reinforcement training is that you ignore the negative behavior. If the puppy goes after one of my older dogs I’m going to pull him away from the dog. Maybe I have that wrong but I was always taught you don’t pull the shoe away from the dog if he’s chewing it. Instead you give a high reward item like a pigs ear and exchange it for the shoe. If the puppy is fighting another dog he’s not going to stop for a treat or toy.

[QUOTE=SAcres;8282759]
My problem with positive reinforcement training is that you ignore the negative behavior. If the puppy goes after one of my older dogs I’m going to pull him away from the dog. Maybe I have that wrong but I was always taught you don’t pull the shoe away from the dog if he’s chewing it. Instead you give a high reward item like a pigs ear and exchange it for the shoe. If the puppy is fighting another dog he’s not going to stop for a treat or toy.[/QUOTE]

I’m a little confused by this paragraph. What have you tried? What method would you like to use? If you’re not doing that, why not? Are you saying you are trading and it isn’t working?

I think some “this is mine” is normal in multi-dog households. Can you take video so we can see what’s going on? I would be surprised if a 4mo puppy is fighting adult dogs.

If puppy is given a safe place to chew a high value item, he’ll calm down about protecting it. If three dogs are tossed into the living room with three chewies, there is going to be tension.

[QUOTE=Bicoastal;8282837]
I think some “this is mine” is normal in multi-dog households. Can you take video so we can see what’s going on? I would be surprised if a 4mo puppy is fighting adult dogs.[/QUOTE]

Agreed. In my house the bitch always gets all the toys/chewies. Her motto is “what’s mine is mine, and what’s yours is mine.” But they don’t fight about it. Sometimes they play growl, often there is “annoyance” barking, but never actual fighting.

A four month old puppy that would actually fight with an adult Akita sounds highly unusual.

Again - have you talked to the breeder about this behavior?

Was the puppy going after the older dog because he thought the older dog was going to take away his (the puppy’s) pig ear, or was the puppy trying to steal the other dog’s pig ear?

[QUOTE=Bicoastal;8282837]
I think some “this is mine” is normal in multi-dog households. Can you take video so we can see what’s going on? I would be surprised if a 4mo puppy is fighting adult dogs.

If puppy is given a safe place to chew a high value item, he’ll calm down about protecting it. If three dogs are tossed into the living room with three chewies, there is going to be tension.[/QUOTE]

I agree with this completely. I have always had two dogs, and all of the pairs I’ve had might potentially get into a skirmish over high value food items. I have never had a pair of dogs that had to be separated at all times or had blood drawn (knocking on wood). I wouldn’t consider a dog that needed a quiet spot to chew a pig ear generally dog aggressive.
I wouldn’t put any group of dogs in a room chewing on pig ears together. The thought makes me nervous. If that is something you’ve always been successful doing and doing with Akitas and ACDs, then I’m not sure I have much to offer other than that this puppy may not be appropriate for that - but I wouldn’t describe protecting a pig ear from another dog to be dog aggressive. Does the breeder have any input?

[QUOTE=SAcres;8281637]
My 4 month old Heeler puppy has started to become aggressive with my older dogs. The older dogs are generally friendly, never start anything with him, and mind their own business.[/QUOTE]

I’m a little confused, and maybe others are as well, because based on the above statement, I assumed that the pig ear incident was not the first time this has happened. This just isn’t the way I would expect someone to describe an incident that was shocking because it had never ever happened before. But then you said this:

and that is really a different story than the one that I understood in your first post.

I don’t have any advice outside of that which has already been provided, but I just wanted to use this thread as an example of how important it is to describe a situation accurately when asking for advice. This happens all the time here on COTH, and the OP always has to come back and re-explain, and it makes it hard to understand what exactly is the true story.

To be clear, I’m not picking on you specifically, because I don’t think you are purposely being misleading in any way (I don’t always feel that way when this type of thing happens), and I might be the only one who misunderstood your first post, but choice of words is important. I also don’t blame you at all for keeping the rehoming option at the back of the table. I would keep that in mind if I were in your situation. The well-being of the established dogs is the top priority.

Good luck - I hope it all works out for you and your dogs.

[QUOTE=SAcres;8282759]
I don’t take the rehoming threat lightly. I don’t want to do something like that, but I absolutely will not tolerate an aggressive dog in the house. I have two dogs that have well deserved places in my home and I will not put them in danger.[/QUOTE]

Well, there are a few things.

  1. Moderate resource guarding when given a very high value object (like a pig ear) is considered completely normal dog behavior.

If your puppy grumbled at the other dog, I’d label it normal. If the other dog tried to steal the pig ear and the puppy snarked or bluffed loudly, I’d label it normal. If he went absolutely ballistic without provocation and full-on attacked the other dog, I might be more concerned.

If the pig ear is the only thing he’s ever guarded, and if he didn’t injure the other dog, honestly I think the best course of action is to just separate the dogs when they are given high-value, long-lasting treats like pig ears. There’s a good chance this behavior won’t generalize to lower-value food, much less toys.

  1. Even if he actually made contact with his teeth, the second thing that you need to remember here is that there are different types of aggression in dogs, and they are largely unrelated to each other.

Aggression toward familiar humans, strange humans, familiar dogs, strange dogs, and perceived prey are all distinct and unrelated to each other. A dog may show one sort of aggression and never show any hint of any other kind.

Sometimes a dog with an anxious personality will show fear-based aggression that includes resource guarding and other behaviors. Outside cases where the dog is an all-around fearful animal who shows other sorts of fear aggression, the factors that drive resource guarding aren’t the same as the factors that drive other types of aggression (dog- or human-directed).

My problem with positive reinforcement training is that you ignore the negative behavior. If the puppy goes after one of my older dogs I’m going to pull him away from the dog. Maybe I have that wrong but I was always taught you don’t pull the shoe away from the dog if he’s chewing it. Instead you give a high reward item like a pigs ear and exchange it for the shoe. If the puppy is fighting another dog he’s not going to stop for a treat or toy.

Resource guarding is a fear-based behavior. The method of training you describe works because it teaches the dog he does not need to be afraid, because he will always get something better in exchange for giving you what he has.

You’re correct that it doesn’t work for dog-dog resource guarding, because you can’t get one dog to trade another dog for a valued object. The fact is, the other dog probably WOULD take his prized food and eat it if given the opportunity.

For this reason, counter-conditioning dog-dog resource guarding involves teaching the dog that another animal getting a valued object does not mean he will lose HIS valued object like he fears (or, in the case of a toy, that he will NEVER GET HIS TOY BACK).

One exercise that works well is to stand with the dogs on opposite sides of a baby gate (a few feet away from each other at least), feed both dogs a treat at the same time. Practice this many times, and gradually start feeding the non-guarder a treat, pausing for a moment, then feeding the resource guarder a treat. Build up to feeding the dogs treats 10-15 seconds apart, with the resource guarder always going second. Over time, this will condition the resource guarder that other dogs getting treats is a good thing because it means he too well get a treat.

You can do this with toys as well. Put a toy in each hand, put the dogs on opposite sides of a baby gate, and play with both dogs at once. Eventually move to playing with one dog for a few seconds while the other dog watches in a sit-stay from the other side of the gate; then switch dogs (let each dog keep their toy for this game).

I have a dog who has a resource guarding issue that is much worse than what you are describing. He has no other aggression issues, and using the method described above he has learned to eat nicely around other dogs, and even tug with other dogs without issue. He will always need to be physically separated from other dogs when he has high value objects like food dispensing toys, but this is a very simple management issue.

Lastly… just in general, cattle dogs are hard, stubborn dogs that aren’t exactly known for their warm and fuzzy temperaments. Here’s a scholarly article about it- they found cattle dogs one of the top-3 most aggressive breeds toward other dogs. While breeds like Greyhounds and Shelties had very low rates of dog aggression (1.6% and 3.5%, respectively), more than one in five cattle dogs has bitten or attempted to bite another dog.

Like you, I believe life is too short to keep a dog that is truly aggressive. But I know the risk of aggression quite high with dogs like ACDs and I won’t own one.

If something like occasionally guarding a prized object is outside the range of behavior you find acceptable, truly a cattle dog might be a poor fit for you. If he is typical of his breed, there is a good chance that when this dog hits social maturity (1-2 years) he won’t be particularly sociable with strangers or dogs he doesn’t live with. If this is the case, returning him to his breeder might be the best option for both of you; a dog like a Labrador or a Bernese Mountain Dog would likely be a better fit in the personality department.

LPH-Wow, great post. Very educational. I’ve only known and have been so impressed by a few cattle dogs I’ve been around. So loyal and steady. Guess they were brought along well like the OP’s pup, who sounds like up until the pig’s ear incident was doing so well. Sure hope they can sort it out.