Hey A.P. I’ll bet you had no idea what would ensue when you posted that link…or did you???:lol:
I don’t know, you know how some of us LOVE discipline. And we already have the whips, chains and spurs handy…
Which way? What they say they would do or what they are saying that pesky buyer who doesn’t want to get ripped off would do? =)
LOL, maybe so, but I guess we’ll never know if there really is a movie star horse from her farm, er mill.
Xharper, I can’t believe you actually went there, poor child! Did you have to disinfect your clothing, shower, and try to block it from your memory?
Haha, no, actually… I was so desperate for a place to ride I was half considering riding for her - so, in reference to her want ad for riders?
You have to have a certain level of experience (which is never specified), you have to be able to ride from 8-4, M-F, during biz hours, cos apparently that’s when all her clients come in (read: skeevy people you’d never want to meet again and have to go home and soak in a 5 billion degree tub to wash off the slime, and then scrub with a pumice stone), and she pays crap - and she only pays when a horse gets sold, according to my understanding. This, however was about a year and a half ago, so things have PROBABLY changed, but…
I’m assuming she put up new fencing, cos all that white fencing was NOT there last time I was…
I think this is the main point everyone is missing. If there is contract with the rancher, then the rancher cannot sell that horse or any, whichever the contract says, to anyone but the person in the contract. If the rancher sells to you, great! He’s the one who violated the contract, not you. You can’t violate a contract you never made, and you cannot force the rancher to sell to you if he doesn’t want to. They’re just trying to scare people.
First of all, I do not know this seller nor farm, nor am I in that part of the country. However, I think that alot of sellers wish they had the guts to enforce a policy like this!
I don’t see anywhere where you have to pay to see the horses; I just see where you have to leave a deposit to hold a horse. Common in many places. And, for people who want a horse held for them before they actually show up and see it, it makes sense. I actually had a vehicle dealership do this to me once when I was on my way to purchase a vehicle they had described to me (but which I hadn’t seen!)
The non-refundable deposit and the restocking fee are not much different than many dealer’s terms; many dealers will allow you to bring back, within a certain time, a horse for trade-in if you aren’t happy with it, but you have to use the trade-in to buy another horse, and usually the other horse will be more expensive, so you’ll have to add a little ‘boot’. This person is pretty much doing the same thing, just wording it a little different. And, by doing it this way (wording it this way) she is probably helping to eliminate the problem buyers.
As far as vetting, she has a point. I cannot tell you how many odd vet-checks I have seen. I’ve seen, many times, one vet fail a horse and the next one pass it–within a few days! I’ve seen one vet claim x-rays were bad, while the next claimed they were great. I’ve seen horses actually end up with bruises from a vetting! I’ve seen vets give contradictory statements. I’ve even heard some real strange statements–such as certain colors of horses will get rain-rot while others won’t and similar. And many people don’t realize what a prepurchase exam does and does not do. This seller is just plain blunt in what she says–and as a result probably saves herself alot of headache. She still lets people do prepurchase exams…she just simply states her opinion. Now, for alot of buyers that is going to make them more certain of doing a prepurchase, but still…
The coggins-test thing: she doesn’t want people knowing where she got the horses. This is not uncommon in the reselling world, and is the reason many dealers have new tests drawn quickly–in order to get the old seller’s name off the test. There are many reasons for this, including the avoiding the hassle of the new buyer calling and bothering the old seller, avoiding people being annoyed with where said horse came from, avoiding people fussing over the price they paid versus the price two owners ago, or even the current seller paid, and avoiding problems with people forced to give up their animals. I myself have often had horses and received them with all info/paperwork/etc. with a request to not pass any of that on…the person selling the horse was very ill, and didn’t want to deal with anyone, etc. These people knew the horse would be resold, and knew that I’d resell to a decent home. Actually, I don’t know where the person on this thread saw that quote, as I couldn’t find it, but it wouldn’t surprise me if she did. I would assume that she would probably just write on/scribble it out or the like. You really aren’t supposed to alter a coggins test…but I understand her feelings for the statement attributed, and again, very common in the horse dealing world for a test to be ‘lost’ (not passed on) or for it to be redrawn with the current owner’s name.
The trailer loading thing: this is written for those people who try loading in a regular trailer. She states very clearly that they will load in a stock trailer. In other words, be wise and don’t try to put them in something else. Even the BLM requires a stock trailer if you decide to get a mustang. However, the reason that this is worded is thus: earlier, she states that once it is paid for, you own it. Therefore, it is your own horse, and you can do what you will. However, she’ll charge you if it inconveniences her. (Which makes sense)
Putting a horse in a stall once its purchased: this is just common sense on the seller’s part! I’m surprised people find it odd! Many, many large dealers and sellers will do this–it protects said horse from getting kicked or injured by his field-mates. And, some, if you purchase a group, will just turn that particular group out together with no others–your horses alone. I’ve run into this many times with many dealers.
Her prices seem pretty average to me for what she’s selling. Yes, some are higher than I’d personally pay, but I do know that there are other farms that sell in that range.
Her ‘liquidating horses’ is just her being blunt and telling it like it is; she is saying she’s running a business, and she has to take losses, too. And this is how it works. I think this is just put in as informational, and also to prevent problems with other people.
Her warning about shipping fever, etc. is very legit; anyone doing the type of business she describes deals with it on a daily basis, and she is good enough to warn people that quaranteen is wise.
Her statement about reserving the right to not sell is also very good; it allows her the option of not selling to a person who is not capable of handling said horse, or who is going to be a problem buyer.
Overall, I think her statements make sense. And again, I bet alot of sellers wish they had the guts to be that candid and blunt. And I’ll bet she weeds out alot of people that would be more of a pain to deal with than worth-while with this policy.
Geeze I’m angry now!!! :mad:
So I’m at my barn today telling all there about this and my family and come back here to shoot them the link to the site and can’t believe she took all the good info down! She spoiled the fun!
I’m going to have to bookmark her site now and occasionally revisit to see what happens.
This has been great fun after the initial aggravation from her arrogance/insults, kudos A.P.!!!
x, I don’t have the energy tonight to address all of it but the $500 isn’t just a nonrefundable deposit to hold a horse. You must pay it before you’ve ever been on the property and seen the horse and you don’t get it back if you get there and the horse only has 3 legs. Of course you can go ahead at that point and pay for the 3 legged critter and then pay a vet to tell you WHY he only has 3 legs. At the point you decide you might like a horse there you have to COMMIT to buying a horse from them. Thats like paying a deposit to get into Target and if you don’t find what you like…too bad.
If I had tried a horse and really liked it and wanted it held for x number of days pending a vet check, final decision, whatever, THEN I might see a nonrefundable deposit. But to pay a deposit before you’ve ever seen a horse? No way. I wouldn’t expect someone to hold a horse for me to some see either…if someone else gets there first, thats life! I’m not paying for the priviledge to see it!
And while I understand that some ppe results can be misunderstood, for the most part they’re very easy to understand. Most are not pass/fail but a decent vet can help you understand it.
Sorry, those “policies” are still a load of BS, IMHO.
I dunno x…the coggins thing…annoying or not…is illegal. Patently illegal. Not to be done no matter how annoying illegal. :winkgrin: And as annoying as a few buyers can be…or a few previous sellers…the only needs to really erase a horse’s past history are 1) The horse was psycho and nobody wants you to know it. 2) The horse is lame/has chronic illness and nobody wants you to know it (especially with their PPE caveats on there, it’s laughable they want to redifine PPE as POST exam and not pre) 3) The horse you’ve jacked the price on is actually a PMU and not a Canadian Sport Horse…thus the reason it’s 1-2 years old and unhandled.
The Canadian Sport Horse thing…advertising anything coming out of Canada as belonging to the CSH registry, is also illegal. False advertising.
I can understand having rigorous rules and regs if you’re burnt often…and I have no issues with people selling off very cheap unbroke grades for much higher than their market worth is…it’s buyer beware. But trying to remove any and all recourse to responsibility on the sellers part for obvious falsehoods and illegal coggins dealings through their ridiculous rules and policies is close to being the worst type of business for taking advantage of the uninformed. Also, threatening to black list anyone who buys a horse they could have flipped for more isn’t exactly a ballsy seller move…it’s plain dumb. And I won;t even mention the particularly junior high type wording on prima donna trainers, buyers not knowing how a PPE works and riders must be young and under a certain weight…the insult to riders over 40 and “pushing 300 lbs” is sophomoric and definitely not professional nor business like in any sense of the terms. She’s selling drafty crosses…what better animal for larger built riders?
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It all comes down to this…If there was nothing “wrong” with her policies and the way she ran her business, her website wouldn’t have been changed. She spoke for herself without saying a word.
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Excellent point.
I do believe it is illegal to alter or falsify a coggins test…my point was simply that many dealers do not pass the current coggins on with a horse, but rather either sell it without, or have a new one drawn, in which case their name is then on it.
I’m not really clear on what she meant with the whole black list type paragraph…my feeling is that it isn’t really totally clear, and may not be what meets the eye. I’m going to guess that it was put in there for some specific problem with some specific buyer at some point in the past? I do remember reading it initally, but when I went back to reread it on the cached pages couldn’t find it, so I don’t know…
But as far as erasing the horse’s past or drawing a new test, here are a few more legitimate reasons: you’d like the current buyer, and if that buyer ‘flips’ the horse to someone else, that person, to see your name as the source of said horse in the hopes they like the horse and want to buy another and will come to see you–this is a big one for some dealers; the seller of said horse requests that their name not be passed on (and this has happened to me quite a few times); seller is noted to ‘track down’ history of any horse bought to the nth degree, finding something that the horse did ten years back to fuss about–drawing a new test won’t necessarily stop this, especially with a registered horse, but it can make it just a little tougher; you question the veracity of the test with the horse you’ve bought, and feel that you really need a new one drawn (happened once to me); test was vaguely written, and you are concerned about questions (has happened to me more than once…and sometimes I owned the horse at the time it was being done!!); test has been rewritten over by the vet and looks fishy, even if legit (again, this happen…received from state like that…fussed, and another copy was sent)
One of my own unwritten rules is that if I buy a horse, and have previous owner information (other than immediate seller), no matter how curious I am, unless there is some very important reason, I will typically not contact the previous owners…my reason is that I don’t particularly like it when people do it to me when I sell a horse, and so therefore I won’t do it to someone else. That said, I am happy to answer to the best of my ability any questions someone comes to me with about a horse I once owned…a couple of times I’ve had people track me down three or four owners out with a question about the horse they had that I was able to help them out with. I am always happy to hear when someone has a horse they are happy with. I am not, however, happy to hear whoever fussing about whomever they got said horse from. Many times I will not even know who it is.
In response to the poster who said it was $500 deposit on an unseen horse, I took that clause to mean that they would sell you one sight unseen, and hold it for that amount of deposit, but I also read whereby they warned of the risks of doing so, and suggested that if one was uncomfortable doing this, then one should make an appointment to see it in person. So I don’t think that you had to “pay that to see a horse”, but rather if you found a particular one you fell in love with, and wanted guaranteed held until you got there, then this is how you’d do it. Again, I can’t say as I was totally pleased, but I was going to buy a vehicle, not a horse, one day, and was told that the dealer wouldn’t hold it until I got there (a bit of a drive, and I was leaving immediately), and it was the only one they had; they told me the same thing…if I wanted to, I could put a $500 non-refundable deposit on it, and they’d hold it, but the emphasised if it wasn’t what I wanted when I got there, the deposit was non-refundable…and this was a fairly large, well-known dealership!
Either that, or maybe she just got sick of all the publicity.
Regardless, I stand by what I said earlier: I think that alot of sellers would like to be brave enough to do something similar–and even though there seem to be alot of shocked readers, I think that it is also very good reading…meaning, that it certainly points out some of the things that inconsiderate buyers can do to aggravate sellers.
[quote=“Lon
[/quote]
This was their horses for sale page.:lol:
Welcome to Virginia Sport Horses[IMG]http://www.virginiasporthorses.com/images/pixel_trans.gif)[IMG]http://www.virginiasporthorses.com/images/pixel_trans.gif)Virginia Sporthorses (VSH) specializes in selecting, importing, and training Canadian Sporthorses. We offer the widest selection of sporthorses, at the most reasonable prices, available on the East Coast.
We personally select our horses from over 30 farms across Canada as well as select breeders in the US. If you want a particular type, breed, or temperament, we have VHS tapes and pictures of between 100-1,000 horses available in our office and will be happy to help you select the perfect horse.
Horses are priced individually. A complete list of prices can be found in our All Horses Sales and Price List, including prices for specific “categories” of horses that are available to us.
Our philosophy is simple, we strive to bring you a cross section of sane, easily trainable draft crosses at a sensible price. Our prices are quite reasonable, and are based on the training each horse has received.
We pride ourselves on an honest representation of each horse we sell. For those horses that are sold directly from the farms in Canada, we try to represent each horse accurately, based on the information provided from the farm.
*** VSH POLICIES ***
Upon entering this site, visitors and users agree to the terms and conditions outlined on Virginia Sport Horses’ POLICIES & INFORMATION page.
If you have questions about any of VSH’s Policies, contact Liz Booth at 540.872.3517 or [U]lizbooth@virginiasporthorses.com[/U].
[IMG]http://www.virginiasporthorses.com/images/pixel_trans.gif)[IMG]http://www.virginiasporthorses.com/images/infobox/corner_left.gif)New Horses For July[IMG]http://www.virginiasporthorses.com/images/infobox/corner_right_left.gif)[IMG]http://www.virginiasporthorses.com/images/mares/ashton.jpg)
Ashton - 2004 TB/Paint/Percheron Cross Gelding
[IMG]http://www.virginiasporthorses.com/images/geldings/otto.jpg)
Otto - 17.2H+ Warmblood Gelding (SOLD)
[IMG]http://www.virginiasporthorses.com/images/qh/selene.jpg)
[URL=“http://www.virginiasporthorses.com/product_info.php/products_id/706?osCsid=b1dfc269029b4aaf31ec7d4ff95737d2”]Selene - 1999 Quarter Horse Mare
Dead broke and Quiet
[IMG]http://www.virginiasporthorses.com/images/tack/browntrnbwreins.jpg)
VSH Signature Training Bridle
[IMG]http://www.virginiasporthorses.com/images/mares/clyde2yrmare.jpg)
Harley - 2004 Clydesdale Mare
[IMG]http://www.virginiasporthorses.com/images/perch/jet2yrsibgrhd.jpg)
Greystone - 2004 TB/Percheron Cross Gelding (SOLD)
[IMG]http://www.virginiasporthorses.com/images/mares/cleossis515.jpg)
Serenity - 2004 Clydesdale/Hackney Cross
[IMG]http://www.virginiasporthorses.com/images/virginiabornfoals/lotsofdotsbest.jpg)
Lotsadots - 2005 POA/Connemara Cross Pony
[IMG]http://www.virginiasporthorses.com/images/perch/edsblazecolt2.jpg)
Tacoma - 2005 Paint/Percheron Cross Colt
[IMG]http://www.virginiasporthorses.com/images/perch/blueeyes2.jpg)
Aspen - 2005 Paint/Percheron Cross Filly (SOLD)
[IMG]http://www.virginiasporthorses.com/images/foals2006/missys06colt.jpg)
Xander - 2006 Welsh/Connemara Cross Colt
[IMG]http://www.virginiasporthorses.com/images/foals2006/raggedyanne.jpg)
Raggedy Anne - 2006 Hypoallergenic
You know what…I don’t think she took down her site. I think we COTHers CRASHED THE SERVER!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: But seriously, I’m not joking. Her hits probably went from 5 a week to 22,000 in a day! I hear them Bumpass servers can’t handle so much attention! :lol: :lol: :lol:
Well, lots of people on this board buy and sell horses for a living and no one else has had to resort to such an inflexible, unreasonable and ridiculous sales policy. If she is so highly aggravated by “inconsiderate” buyers, maybe she shouldn’t be in the sales business? Her policies don’t exactly convey consideration to her customers.
Even if I saw that once-in-a-lifetime dream horse on her site, as soon as I read her dictatorial policies I’d run screaming the other way. I wouldn’t buy a soda from that woman. :no:
Is a Thoroughshire like a shakneypoo?
I agree 411. I don’t think her site crashed as there are other parts still functioning. I think she has read all of this and realized the word was out and removed it. I bet if you called them there would be no policies in place. Very unreasonabl in her policies and equally unreasonable pricing. The pricing is what got me, Big Bucks of unbroke horses. That should make my show pony and all my horses worth millions.
I believe so Linny, I believe so.
She has taken down many of the pages.
