7 day work week

[Texarkana]

@Isabeau Z Solace

I have certainly have had 7 day situations (when I was younger, dumber, and a lot more desperate…) however… I would hope that the horse industry would work to improve upon on that. Especially for ‘groom’ positions, or limited opportunity positions. As opposed to ‘sales’ positions where the job description includes hustling to makes sales/gain clients/get lessons, etc.

The horse industry is subject to the same criticism of business and sport as the rest of the world. We need to be a lot more proactive about IMPROVING all aspects. “That’s how they did it in the way back when” is not going to protect the industry in the future. We can police our own industry or wait for outside forces to kick our asses, and regulate us from a place of true ignorance.

That’s why I said “not saying denying people time off is right.”

I no longer work in the horse industry, and this is a big part of the reason why. The horse industry has become reliant on terrible labor practices. I mean, look at the “working student” phenomenon. Working student positions used to be rare opportunities for riders to learn under elite trainers whom they could not otherwise access. Now every idiot who hangs a shingle and calls themselves a trainer has a half dozen of them handling all the schlep work in exchange for literally nothing.

I read “surprise” in your OP. Maybe I projected or misconstrued that surprise. I also felt it was important to share my experience to dismiss the idea that race/country of origin should influence one’s opinion.

I also think there are a few situations where a 7 day a week groom position would not be any cause for concern. For example, if the groom’s only responsibility is feed, turnout, and muck stalls… that might only be a couple hours work a day (or it could be many more, just depends on the size of the barn). This might be the type of PT side gig someone can do daily without altering the course of their day or precluding them from holding a FT job. It could be a job in exchange for housing. I mean, I do the same for my horses at home 7 days a week with a perfectly fine quality of life for myself.

Bottom line: all employees deserve a 21st century quality of life. Yet depending on the situation, low impact, 7 day a week horse jobs may still exist without denying anyone quality of life.

[trubandloki]

@Red Barn

Of course. I’m out with mine 7 days a week myself, and the pay is nonexistent. But that’s different from a commercial ad that apparently brags about having exactly one paid person responsible for everything, every day.

Didn’t the OP say it is a co-op barn. So what is the extent of the “everything, every day” that this groom is responsible for?

I can say that as an adult in their 30s I cleaned stalls at the boarding barn every day, seven days per week, including holidays. A few of those days I also fed. All along with a full time office job. I liked this as a way to earn some extra money (which all went back into my horse’s board) instead of getting a part time job somewhere else. I only stopped because I moved.

[Casey09]

I don’t think I’d make a judgment. There’s no way to know all of the details of the arrangement. I’m sure there are situations where it might make sense for someone to work 7 days a week but fewer hours a day or other explanations. The only thing that I would ask would be what the arrangement is if the employee is injured, sick, on vacation, etc. You don’t want to be in a situation where there is no plan. Otherwise I would judge only how well my horse is cared for. The rest of it could have a lot of nuances that you’re not aware of.

[OfCourseItsAnAlter]

There are plenty of non-nefarious explanations for an arrangement like this. If I was retired, I would jump at an offer to have free/reduced cost decent housing (and maybe free/reduced board?) in return for feeding, turning out, and mucking every day for a modest number of horses. Sounds like a perfect situation, to me.

[Red_Barn]

@trubandloki

I can say that as an adult in their 30s I cleaned stalls at the boarding barn every day, seven days per week, including holidays. A few of those days I also fed. All along with a full time office job. I liked this as a way to earn some extra money (which all went back into my horse’s board) instead of getting a part time job somewhere else. I only stopped because I moved.

Fine if you like that sort of thing, but what happens if you’re sick, dead or have some sort of private emergency to deal with? Do the horses go unfed and unsupervised until some random boarder happens to notice?

I can think of plenty of reasons to be less than thrilled with a one-person staff, even if I had no interest at all in the welfare of the help.

[fordtraktor]

@Red Barn

Fine if you like that sort of thing, but what happens if you’re sick, dead or have some sort of private emergency to deal with? Do the horses go unfed and unsupervised until some random boarder happens to notice?

I can think of plenty of reasons to be less than thrilled with a one-person staff, even if I had no interest at all in the welfare of the help.

Anyone with horses has a backup plan. I have several boarders I can reach out to if I am ill and they can feed. They pitched in together in the spring when my gallbladder kicked the bucket and I had to spend 10 days in the hospital. none of the horses missed a single meal. As soon as I knew I was really, really sick my first text was to my backups, not even my husband or mom!

I think the barn probably advertises this as a benefit because it’s much better than those big barns that have a constantly rotating supply of teens doing the horse care. We see so many threads about horses missing supps, not getting meds, lacking water, wrong hay/no hay, not noticing changes/wounds, etc. etc. and those mistakes happen more when the staff is not consistent, IMO. I know each and every leg and bump on the horses in my care, as well as their quirks and preferences. I know which one to add an extra liner and which ones run hot. It’s much more tailored care than “put mediums on all the horses” types of programs. So maybe, having experienced stuff like that, they thought others would prefer one caretaker as well.

[S1969]

@Red Barn

Fine if you like that sort of thing, but what happens if you’re sick, dead or have some sort of private emergency to deal with? Do the horses go unfed and unsupervised until some random boarder happens to notice?

I can think of plenty of reasons to be less than thrilled with a one-person staff, even if I had no interest at all in the welfare of the help.

LOL exactly. This isn’t really a “selling point” in my opinion. “We have only one guy who is your groom. Hopefully he’s not sick when you need him.”

[Red_Barn]

@fordtraktor

Anyone with horses has a backup plan. I have several boarders I can reach out to if I am ill and they can feed. They pitched in together in the spring when my gallbladder kicked the bucket and I had to spend 10 days in the hospital. none of the horses missed a single meal. As soon as I knew I was really, really sick my first text was to my backups, not even my husband or mom!

I think the barn probably advertises this as a benefit because it’s much better than those big barns that have a constantly rotating supply of teens doing the horse care. We see so many threads about horses missing supps, not getting meds, lacking water, wrong hay/no hay, not noticing changes/wounds, etc. etc. and those mistakes happen more when the staff is not consistent, IMO. I know each and every leg and bump on the horses in my care, as well as their quirks and preferences. I know which one to add an extra liner and which ones run hot. It’s much more tailored care than “put mediums on all the horses” types of programs. So maybe, having experienced stuff like that, they thought others would prefer one caretaker as well.

I can see that, I suppose, but, as I say, I think it’s very odd phrasing, especially for a coop. This one-man show might be an exhausted working student of 17 for all the ad tells you.

Of course, if somebody was really interested in this place, I suppose they could just pop in at some random hour and talk to the resident serf at leisure. That’s what I’d do.

[Red_Barn]

@Red Barn

I can see that, I suppose, but, as I say, I think it’s very odd phrasing, especially for a coop. This one-man show might consist of a single working student of 17 for all the ad tells you.

Of course, if somebody was really interested in this place, I suppose they could just pop in at some random hour and talk to the resident serf at leisure. That’s what I’d do.

[trubandloki]

@Red Barn

Fine if you like that sort of thing, but what happens if you’re sick, dead or have some sort of private emergency to deal with? Do the horses go unfed and unsupervised until some random boarder happens to notice?

I can think of plenty of reasons to be less than thrilled with a one-person staff, even if I had no interest at all in the welfare of the help.

I am confused how you got from my post that it was a one person operation? Or how what the OP has said about this barn makes this person into a one person operation.

I don’t know about most people but I have yet to meet a person willing to do that type of work that will turn around and do nothing if they are unable to work. Now, clearly death is a problem but that would likely be a problem at any place. On the very rare times I was too sick to do my stalls (about 20, or a larger facility) I would contact the barn owner and some other people to make sure they were covered. Not rocket science here.

This thread kind of proves that there is no one situation that will make everyone happy. I think this was advertised as a positive because this way one person knows Dobbin (and all the other horses) so they will easily notice if Dobbin is not acting right.

Thankfully there are barns with all types of care, to meet the needs of everyone out there.

[Lucassb]

@Isabeau Z Solace

So an ad popped up on my FB feed offering board at a “co-op” that employs a groom 7 days/week to feed, muck and turnout. I am curious whether this person is “on the books,” is covered by work place injury insurance, etc. ( they also live on site.)

Aside from those legalities, how would/do feel as a boarder if the staff worked 7 days/week? Would it matter if they were legally in the USA or not? I don’t know about all areas of the USA but east coast it is very common for farms to employ undocumented Spanish speakers. Sometimes these folks crank out 2-3 different job sites/day for 10+ years and support extended families and businesses back home. Sometimes not…

if the barn ADVERTISING emphasized that staff works 7 days, would that encourage you to board there or discourage?

That seems like an odd type of co-op… (normally when I hear co-op, I think of each owner/boarder doing their own feeding, mucking and turnout - not having a groom.)

But it’s entirely possible that the “groom” is the owner, particularly given the note about living on site. Not sure anyone would think anything about such an arrangement, but that’s because we assume that the owner has reasonable agency about the work they do, and also likely assume that a groom might not, so it comes across as potentially problematic.

As others have noted, depending on the set up and number of horses, the arrangement above may be perfectly reasonable or not. Years ago, I boarded at a place where the groom did the barn 7 days a week in exchange for housing and a modest salary. But the house was quite nice, the barn was quite small, and the work took him about 2 hours a day. He had another job M-F that he went to after his morning chores were done. Everyone involved seemed happy with the arrangement.

[Red_Barn]

@trubandloki

I am confused how you got from my post that it was a one person operation? Or how what the OP has said about this barn makes this person into a one person operation.

I didn’t get there from your post, but from the OP’s. She said that this is a coop - ie: not a privately owned business with a BO and/or BM in attendance - and that there’s one groom - ie: not a resident owner/trainer/coop member - on staff.

That sounds like some sort of barn or farm rented by a bunch of people who pay a single on-site worker to take care of the place.

What else could it be, given the description?

[JenEM]

Assuming my google-fu is working, a search on “elite co-op horses” should pull up what I think is the facility in question. From what I can tell on their website, it’s under 10 horses, and from the website, it sounds like the “groom” is more of an on-site BM who does night-check, supply ordering, etc. Nothing on the website implies that the groom/BM does the stall cleaning, turnout, etc. While not ideal, I think in reality a lot of horse professionals (BO/BM/trainers) are working or “on call” 7 days a week, especially if they live on-site.

[S1969]

@JenEM

Assuming my google-fu is working, a search on “elite co-op horses” should pull up what I think is the facility in question. From what I can tell on their website, it’s under 10 horses, and from the website, it sounds like the “groom” is more of an on-site BM who does night-check, supply ordering, etc. Nothing on the website implies that the groom/BM does the stall cleaning, turnout, etc. While not ideal, I think in reality a lot of horse professionals (BO/BM/trainers) are working or “on call” 7 days a week, especially if they live on-site.

From their video on Facebook:

“We call it elite because the co-op has its own full time groom who cleans stalls, turns out, brings in, keeps the outdoor water troughs clean and filled, changes sheets and blankets, and keeps the barn spic and span. He does this 7 days a week.”

It is limited to 9 horses, but still, I don’t know that I’d use the “we have ONE guy” in the video.

[ladyj79]

@JenEM

Assuming my google-fu is working, a search on “elite co-op horses” should pull up what I think is the facility in question. From what I can tell on their website, it’s under 10 horses, and from the website, it sounds like the “groom” is more of an on-site BM who does night-check, supply ordering, etc. Nothing on the website implies that the groom/BM does the stall cleaning, turnout, etc. While not ideal, I think in reality a lot of horse professionals (BO/BM/trainers) are working or “on call” 7 days a week, especially if they live on-site.

Watch the video, it’s on fb 😂 the woman isn’t the groom.

that was my initial response, I thought oh it is legit just organizing the ordering of supplies, and watering.

[ladyj79]

@S1969

From their video on Facebook:

“We call it elite because the co-op has its own full time groom who cleans stalls, turns out, brings in, keeps the outdoor water troughs clean and filled, changes sheets and blankets, and keeps the barn spic and span. He does this 7 days a week.”

It is limited to 9 horses, but still, I don’t know that I’d use the “we have ONE guy” in the video.

:lol:

The video with the google doc reader voice. So strange.

[Blinky]

A 7 day work schedule is not illegal. So I’m not following what the question is?

[lolalola]

Oh, that’s Gail Hoff Carmona’s old Los Alamos Dressage Center, now Burlington Farm. I suspect the groom lives on the property. Much of the land has been sold off and it’s probably not more than 10 acres anymore.

[Arelle]

I would have to investigate to see. My biggest concern wouldn’t be that one person would be working every single day; it would be how much turnover there is in the position.

Horses require care 365 days a year. You can’t just not feed them or clean their stalls because “you need a day off”. I have nine at my house, and every time I’ve been sick I’ve desperately wished I could have the day off - but it’s not an option. :lol:

The barns I’ve been affiliated with in the past have handled this a couple of different ways. Where the barn was large (i.e. - 2-3 barns, 2-3 arenas), they had a staff of 3-4 guys who rotated their days off. Where the barns have been smaller, they may only have one person - and so the chore list is substantially smaller on Sunday or Monday. The last barn I was at like this had two days a week where their guy would feed breakfast and pick stalls, and then the trainer/owner would turn out, bring in, groom, feed dinner and do stalls on those evenings.

A large majority of the “spanish speaking” staff I know here in Texas have been with the same ranches and people for years. They’re treated very well, have better accommodations than a chunk of the homes in the lower income areas of town, and everyone with a successful business knows that they’re the backbone that holds the place together so they don’t take advantage of that.

[anon68314200]

@ladyj79

Found it…:lol: that video though.

It feels like one of those jobs where when the horses can be out a lot, it’s fine, and when they can’t it’s not.

Also the only thing that really makes it a co-op is the you have to buy your own materials but they can facilitate the ordering.

It feels like they could charge three times the price and just call it a boarding facility, but I wonder if there are licensing and insurance things that make it a bigger pain in the behind.

thanks for finding it! It is hard to describe completely. It is not short. The tone is a bit odd.

reminds me somewhat of one advert I read that list stalls as “ 12‘ x 12‘…that’s 144 ft.²! !!! “ They said in the ad🙄