Out of curiosity, has anyone looked at the breeding of the horses that have had the “fatal” falls?
[QUOTE=tom;8078896]
The long format was changed by eliminating the steeplechase and roads and tracks to prevent eventing (and eventually, perhaps, dressage and showjumping) from being dropped from the 2004 Olympics.
Rather than ring-fencing these changes to Olympic competitions the FEI allowed the change to become a generalized change. I believe this was a mistake: It was a mistake to let a once-every-four-years competition, which is not even a 4* event, fundamentally change the sport.
The change did not take place because of warmbloods; it took place because of the cost of creating facilities and the lack of a reasonable return on the investment in most countries where eventing is not a popular sport. If the change did not happen eventing would not be an Olympic sport today.[/QUOTE]
I always thought the cost of building roads and steeplechase excuse was kind of bogus, considering that building the crosscountry course and dressage and stadium jumping arenas takes a lot more money than that.
Jimmy Wofford:
“I think the reasons the FEI went for the change to a CIC format in the Olympics are twofold: One is a reaction to criticism from animal-rights groups in Europe. The other is subtle but very strong pressure from the sporthorse breeders in western Europe. I think the FEI folded and accepted the change so quickly because for ten years they’ve been getting pressure from the western European nations, led by the Germans and supported by the Dutch and Belgians. And the big reason is money: There’s an enormous amount of money involved in the prices these sporthorses are going for.”
From
http://practicalhorsemanmag.com/article/short_format_122308
“The other is subtle but very strong pressure from the sporthorse breeders in western Europe.”
Spoken from atop the grassy knoll, I presume. The FEI does not make decisions on the basis of what sport horse breeders or animal rights activists want.
It wasn’t the cost of building roads and tracks and steeplechase, it was the availability of enough land. IOC wants Olympic events held as close as possible to the designated Olympic city, to make logistics easier for participants, officials, volunteers, and more importantly, spectators and sponsors. It is hard enough in many Olympic areas to even find enough available land for a cross-country course. Eliminating roads and tracks and steeplechase meant less land was needed to stage an Olympic 3-day. And for whatever reason, FEI went along with that decision for all CIC events.
The FEI doesn’t make all these changes without pressure from somewhere, and the somewhere has to be the National Federations. Back in 2006, the German NF expressed a “vision” for eventing which the FEI has steadily moved closer and closer to. (I’m not sure where the idea for the CIC came from, but it was instituted in 2002, only a year or so before the “long format” was axed for the Olympics.) In the last set of rules, the FEI mandated that all CICs would have XC last, one feature of the German NF vision. After protest, they removed the mandate and left CIC order to the organizers, which is what it was before the change. Then this year, the FEI adopted almost word for word the German NF rules for eventing dressage bitting. They deleted the use of several bits that were legal in “real” dressage. After an explosion of dismay from eventing NFs, the German rules were dropped, and the bit rules for pure dressage were substituted. Bits like Bauchers were once again legal, and so were bits like Nathes.
The FEI twice proposed the abolition of the dressage coefficient but that proposal never made it to FEI assembly. I’ve been told that the FEI dropped their proposal for German NF support on something else not remotely connected to eventing. It’s the dressage coefficient in the current format that has fueled the change to WBs without TB very close. The old recipe for a long format horse was one that was 75% or more TB.
Whether I’m looking for a grassy knoll or not, it does appear that the Germans have a great deal of influence on FEI eventing rules, which are what make the sport what it is.
The Olympics are supposed to be a CCI, not a CIC. The 4*s are all CCI’s. There are differences between the two formats, which have to do with order of phases, horse inspections, and length of the XC course.
[QUOTE=tom;8079715]
“The other is subtle but very strong pressure from the sporthorse breeders in western Europe.”
Spoken from atop the grassy knoll, I presume. The FEI does not make decisions on the basis of what sport horse breeders or animal rights activists want. [/QUOTE]
Then what do they base it on? As I said the economic argument you posted seems weak.
Jimmy Wofford is a very knowledgeable person, btw.
And then there’s arriving to a conclusion using common sense.
[QUOTE=grayarabpony;8080071]
Then what do they base it on? As I said the economic argument you posted seems weak.
Jimmy Wofford is a very knowledgeable person, btw.
And then there’s arriving to a conclusion using common sense.[/QUOTE]
The comments by Jimmy Wofford remind me a lot of what I read several years ago in a related article.
I would be interested in knowing who was on the committees at the FEI who made the decisions regarding the format changes. Were they in any way connected with breeding? Or had strong contacts who were.
It’s no surprise that the format has changed now that we have primarily WB’s in the ring these days. If you have horses that aren’t built for galloping over very long courses, are you going to keep the format the way it is or change it?
[QUOTE=SnicklefritzG;8080088]
The comments by Jimmy Wofford remind me a lot of what I read several years ago in a related article.
I would be interested in knowing who was on the committees at the FEI who made the decisions regarding the format changes. Were they in any way connected with breeding? Or had strong contacts who were.
It’s no surprise that the format has changed now that we have primarily WB’s in the ring these days. If you have horses that aren’t built for galloping over very long courses, are you going to keep the format the way it is or change it?[/QUOTE]
The FEI members wouldn’t have to be close to anyone breeding horses. Just want horses from their country to succeed.
[QUOTE=grayarabpony;8080274]
The FEI members wouldn’t have to be close to anyone breeding horses. Just want horses from their country to succeed.[/QUOTE]
Well that says a lot then!
[QUOTE=tom;8080460]
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/new-olympic-threat-to-equestrianism-38902
Those articles don’t really have anything to do with the change from long to short format, just the expense of equestrian sports in general and concern for the safety of the horses and riders.
FWIW, Back in 2002 the president of the FEI was the Infanta of Spain, who was a huge supporter of dressage. She also hated the steeplechase phase of eventing because she believed it was unsafe. Presidents of the FEI seem to have a great deal of influence, and eventing was thrown under the bus to save dressage and show jumping.
It’ll likely be thrown under the bus again, when equestrian is under the Olympic gun. I agree with Tom that the changes in eventing should have been limited to just the Olympics, but that’s over and done with. The riders are happy not to have to go through Steeplechase, roads and tracks.
[QUOTE=vineyridge;8080867]
FWIW, Back in 2002 the president of the FEI was the Infanta of Spain, who was a huge supporter of dressage. She also hated the steeplechase phase of eventing because she believed it was unsafe. Presidents of the FEI seem to have a great deal of influence, and eventing was thrown under the bus to save dressage and show jumping.
It’ll likely be thrown under the bus again, when equestrian is under the Olympic gun. I agree with Tom that the changes in eventing should have been limited to just the Olympics, but that’s over and done with. The riders are happy not to have to go through Steeplechase, roads and tracks.[/QUOTE]
If the sport is safer now – and the FEI report I linked to in the eventing thread indicates that it is – then the changes are good for the sport. It’s just too bad that the changes were detrimental to the pure TB competing in eventing at the top levels. Dressage will forever be the downfall of most really fit TBs.
[QUOTE=SnicklefritzG;8078606
are the falls happening because the courses are simply too technical or because the horses are too tired to jump them properly?[/QUOTE]
IMO, both. The WB types don’t have the stamina to go that fast, that far and the courses are now too technical to be ridden at the speed expected. A technical fence (or complex) requires that the horse slow down, often dramatically. When they do, the time lost is made up by going too fast over long stretches without jumps or too fast into other technical areas. Either of those options is a bad risk.
[QUOTE=Linny;8081039]
IMO, both. The WB types don’t have the stamina to go that fast, that far and the courses are now too technical to be ridden at the speed expected. A technical fence (or complex) requires that the horse slow down, often dramatically. When they do, the time lost is made up by going too fast over long stretches without jumps or too fast into other technical areas. Either of those options is a bad risk.[/QUOTE]
That makes a lot of sense. Thanks for the details.
What you said reminded me a lot of my days when I did competitive cycling. I was never very good at criteriums, the shorter (40-50 mile), circuit type races because of the repeated accelerations. Although I was good at drafting, a few very hard accelerations would kill me. As much as I tried to train for that type of thing, it didn’t help me improve to the point that I could do well in that type of race. Ultimately, I switched to endurance events of 100-200 miles. I did very well at those because my best skill was riding at a steady pace. In fact in the longer distance events, I could handily beat a lot of people who would leave me in the dust at anything less than 50 miles.
It was just the way my body works. Something about my muscle type or something.
I wouldn’t be surprised if there were similar things going on with horses. Being able to handle repeated accelerations is a skill and ability unto itself. I can totally see how constantly speeding up and slowing down could tire certain types of horses out more than others.
