A head Scratcher

This is gonna be a long one. (and probably more info than you need but I don’t know what’s related)

10 yo Westfalen Gelding

Purchased May 2023 - Location SE PA

Shortly after discovered anhidrotic. Did all the treatments, got sweating in August with Mega Sweat. Before that had run metabolic panel and a host of others, only thing off was very low VIT E. Started on liquid vit e.

Did have Lyme in Summer of 2023 (main symptom was big time spooky) - good after treatment

Sept 2023 has emergency colic surgery (caused by a rent)

Start back riding January. Besides hock injections and obvious rehab doing really well. Have to up VIT E even more as just struggling to get it to normal.

Into spring and early summer, is sweating, not as much as a normal horse but sweat on neck and chest and a little on the flanks.

Job is low adult hunter, came to me without changes so working mostly on that. By mid July we’re doing really well, he’s the type that loses fitness super quick, but he tries hard and we were quite the pair. Then suddenly end of July about 1/2 way through the lesson he just quits. Like the horse would not go. We’re like this is strange. Have vet out decide we’re 7.5 months post hocks do those.

He’s feeling better moving great, but basically since then, after 15-20 min of work, he’s just done. He’ll trot slowly but will not canter. I mean maybe you could do something drastic to get him there but I’m not going to fight with a horse that’s telling me something is wrong.

He has also fully stopped sweating again (late July/early Aug that happened), so we’re very strict about temps and humidity and then have a bucket to sponge off every walk break. However, he does blow very hard very quickly, more quickly than a horse who gets worked as much as he does should.

He’s in full training board, but the trainer is riding him first thing in the am and is about 100lbs lighter than me. And he’s on night turnout so she’s getting on before he’s spent all day in the stall. Her riding him later in the day recreates the issue, though not as quickly as when I ride.

Sent hair today to UC Davis for PSSM1 test. Next week vet is coming to pull blood for the muscle tests (where they pull it before and after work), to see if it is muscle related. Also going to pull blood for Lyme, and Anemia.

He is not unsound, matter of fact he’s moving better than he ever has.

So what the heck else is there to check for? Am I missing something? Could this be saddle fit and it just take 15-20 min for it to bother him? COPD (zero coughing though, just high respiration rate)? He get regular bodywork and nothing noticeable is different. He is not a particularly stoic horse.

SOVLED (we think)
He has PPID/Cushing’s at the ripe age of 10. Started prascend today. Will update if for some reason that doesn’t solve our problems

IDK that’s a puzzle. My thought is the same as yours COPD or something. Anybody take a good listen to his heart lately? Sending some jingle along for him.

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what’s his diet?

Look into all the vitamin E deficiency diseases - https://ker.com/nmdl/resources/vitamin-e/

What Vit E product are you using, how many IU, and how low was it? Below normal needs a water-soluble version - Emcelle, Nano-E, or Elevate W.S. Those are the 3 choices in the US

He’s getting elevate 2x a day and that keeps him just above low end normal. I’ll have to look at dose but I know the normal dose didn’t do it vet had us double it. He’s been getting retested ever 4 months

Cushings…both of my cushings geldings stopped sweating at some point. My current gelding’s only symptom was running out of gas while riding. Had my vet out thinking he needed his hocks done as he just wasn’t carrying himself. He was also just low energy riding, even though he should have been fit.

His regular test was borderline…but his stim test was very high. Started him on a very low dose of prascend and he is doing so much better!

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Which one though? Maintenance is regular natural E, where W.S. is the water-soluble form.

Elevate WS three one you get in liquid from the vet

He wasn’t even borderline it was totally normal. But that was last year maybe we should do it again

The low end of normal may be insufficient for your horse. My third horse tested just in the low end of normal the first time. I had to give him 3000iu/day to get his issues resolved. Tests at that point had him mid range.

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What happens if you ride him first thing in the morning?

The earliest I’ve done it is 9am but honestly that was before all these issues cuz life. Next weekend I could do 7am.

Eta I have ridden earlier but on those days it was already very humid and over 80 so I wouldn’t ride more than 15 minutes anyways

but how much are you giving?

So his vit E level in March was 295. And it’s now 477. He’s on 6ml (given 3ml am and 3ml pm). He’s also on a dose of the elevate powder just cuz it was in his smartpak and I haven’t taken it ou.

6mL of Elevate WS is 3000IU - 500IU per mL. 477 should be fine, BUT, you’ll want to ask about how to find out how much is actually getting to muscle tissue. That’s what VEM is, basically a storage myopathy. He may need double that, even of the w.s form

And, you can consider using Emcelle, it’s considerably cheaper than Elevate

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I hadn’t looked at another because my vet just gets it too the barn and bills me and I’m crap at remembering to order stuff

So I was gonna ask my vet to go ahead and do this again, then read this article!

https://equusmagazine.com/diagnosis/seasonal-considerations-for-cushings-disease-tests-8409

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The seasonal rise and what it means for early PPID horses is pretty standard these days. It’s the ideal time for first tests, using the ACTH test

The EEG - Equine Endocrinology Group - has most if not all the leading research on PPID
https://equineendocrinologygroup.org/

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thanks!

Also while my horse has the no sweating, easy keeper, thing, he also has a really nice shiny coat with no issues shedding etc.

I’m wondering if he’s got a really high sense of self preservation. To flat out stop moving 7 months post hock injections is pretty extreme.

I’d be curious what you could observe with a heart monitor. Perhaps when he gets over a certain point combined with his minimal sweating, his body goes into a strong shut down and take care of itself mode. This could be why your trainer who is lighter and riding earlier can get a more standard ride but still has issues in the heat. If so, I’m not sure what you do with that information to be honest except for maybe intense cardio this winter so he is fitter next summer?

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Not that I’m suggesting PPID is in play here, but the coat issues tend to be symptoms of fairly advanced PPID. You don’t want to think “he can’t be” until you see the coat, because by then you’re behind the 8 ball

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