A lifelong English rider wants your insight into groundwork!

[kashmere]

Hello frequenters of the Western forum

So, not to generalize, but it seems to me that Western riders tend to spend a whole heck of a lot more time on groundwork than us English folk. Even working for trainers with young horses, the most I’ve tended to do or be asked to do is to get a horse to stand quietly for mounting or on cross ties. Of course, longeing is also “groundwork” but I guess I’m talking about more manners etc.

Do you have favourite groundwork exercises? What do you consider a “must have” for your horses? Recommended books, videos etc?

I have a new little project horse and she is a tense, nervous gal both under saddle and on the ground. I think expanding our groundwork is a good opportunity to give her some confidence and add more tools to our toolbox together.

[Palm_Beach]

Groundwork puts the horse in a good mental frame to move forward with under saddle work. The horse should go, stop, move the hips, move the shoulders, side pass, back up, and give left/right before you even think about getting on. Once the horse learns that on the ground, it will pick up the under saddle cues much much quicker and be much less stressed. I also do a ton of desensitizing and obstacle work.

[Marla_100]

Agree w/ Palm Beach, plus ground driving is another great skill to teach them. If you don’t know how, get someone skilled to show you how. Most horses enjoy it, but if your horse is nervous you want someone experienced to help you initially.

There’s loads of good books on groundwork that shows you step by step what to do.

Good Luck w/ your project.

[Foxglove]

Kashmere --I’ve thought the same thing! I started myself English as a kid (foxhunting), then my daughters all took up show jumping or eventing. We actually thought “Western Riders” were odd with their fancy suits and horses that would move their feet when you blinked an eye (showmanship). Then two things happened --my grand daughter started riding and PREFERRED western, and I happened into a QH who foxhunted, but had a western background in reining/cow.

Grand daughter and I pursued the western “stuff” with a passion --we found her the perfect horse (Breeding Stock Paint/ No papers/ good training), and along with her, I rode my QH/foxhunter in all the western drills and did the in-hand work. It was fun because she knew more than I did! We found an excellent western trainer/coach/instructor whom she (to this day) adores. She is so good with her BSP, she shows in “shankless showmanship” classes --what we call “off leash” in the dog world.

Meanwhile ALL my horses have benefited from the ground work we put into the two western horses (the only people who do it better, I think, are the draft people).

As to your question: There’s a DVD called “Respect on the ground” that I found helpful --the presenter gives 8 specific exercises that put the handler in control of all four feet. It has 30 min exercises (about my attention span) and each builds on the previous one. It shows what to do if the horse doesn’t respond how he/she should, and common handler mistakes. Now the presenter is (hate to put this out there --so much controversy) Clinton Anderson. Many people dislike him, his methods, and his resulting “type” of horse. And I’m sure there are more trainers with DVDs, too. But, what I liked was the 30 min lesson, and the “what if” parts --it worked for me. And in his favor, he never blames the horse --it’s always handler error --and I think that’s probably true. Maybe the other trainers are better, but this Clinton Anderson DVD worked for me. I think there are segments on YouTube you could watch before you buy (actually, I borrowed mine --the DVDs are expensive).

Going from memory, the 8 exercises are:

1. Desensitizing (your horse becomes used to ropes and the lunge whip --yours probably is, but have to start some place. When I applied this exercise to my daughters OTTB, he about had a melt down. But he’s a quiet boy now.
2. Moving the hindquarter away

3. Backing in hand method 1 (used in a narrow aisle)
4. Backing in hand method 2 (used in a bigger space)
5. backing in hand method 3 (used in a horse trailer)
6. sending (you point --horse goes where you point -like into a stall or horse trailer)
7. moving away in a side pass type motion
8. moving toward in a side pass type motion (like toward a mounting block)

Welcome to the western world --like all horse disciplines, it has its people who are over the top, and its share of weirdo-s (I’m probably one of them) --so look for the stuff that helps you and your horse.

Foxglove

[kashmere]

Thanks! Appreciate the long and detailed post, Foxglove This lady’s “career path” is still geared to the English disciplines (jumpers or eventing if I have my way, Dressage if it turns out o/f isn’t her thing), but I think incorporating more groundwork is going to be a plus regardless of our eventual goal. I can see absolutely no downside to having a horse more in tune on the ground and I think it’s one more piece of the puzzle in building a positive relationship with this girl in particular. She has a few years of her life that are a bit of a ???, and my spidey senses say that perhaps she’s had some rough experiences that weren’t worked through well.

[Palm_Beach]

Here is an article - apparently a study in Germany showed that the horses who are subjected to groundwork are more relaxed under saddle. I would like to read the actual study, but have not had time to find it.

http://spellboundhorses.com/2013/03/07/horses-regularly-trained-with-ground-work-are-more-relaxed-when-ridden/

I would also like to read John Lyon’s groundwork manual. Monty Roberts, Lyons and Anderson are the people I was first exposed to, and their ground work methods are good.

[Pocket_Pony]

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Watch the 7 Clinics DVDs and start to incorporate those exercises. Learning the groundwork exercises is more than about going through the motions. It is about developing feel and timing so that you can be as soft with your aids as possible. It is about getting together with your horse in a frame of mind where you mutually understand each other. It is about softening up your horse through his body. It is about softening yourself up through your body.

It really came in handy with my dominant mustang - we didn’t start with it until he was 7 years old, and I wish I’d found it sooner. Since I now understand more about feel and timing, I can put it into practice with my filly, but in a way where it doesn’t seem like “groundwork” - it is just regular handling, and she has been so easy to start!

[pAin_t_Misbehavin]

Oh, yeah. :yes: When I rode English, I thought if I could lead one to the mounting block that was plenty of groundwork. :lol: It only needed to stand there long enough for me to throw my leg over - we’d worry about stirrups as we went along.

Then I had an accident. Not a bad one, but enough to shake my and my horse’s confidence - who knew, horses don’t like people falling off of them? So I found a trainer who (after her own accident) studied under someone who learned from Tom/Ray/Buck and progeny and it opened up a whole new world for me. Can’t recommend it enough.

The best DVD series out there is 7 Clinics with Buck Brannaman. Easy to follow and understand,and review often. http://www.7clinics.com/

[dog_amp_horsemom]

I have always ridden English also but several yrs ago I bought an ottb who had issues and so I bought Clinton Anderson’s book ( can’t remember the name but it profiles an English rider and a Western Rider and their 4 yr old horses with typical ‘young horse’ issues). Anyway - it was a Game Changer for me! I also bought some of his dvd’s when I had a particular issue ( right lead ) but the book was great and the ottb was much better for it.
I also watched Buck Brannamon’s 7 clinics dvd ( ground work- so far). He is very much the ‘reward the slightest try’ trainer and I like how he does things. I don’t think he is the ‘teacher’ that Clinton is ONLY because he sometimes doesn’t explain it as well, I have also seen Buck in several clinics as well as Jimmy Anderson, Craig Cameron ect ect.
I have used these method’s on spooky, nervous, lazy and energetic horses with great success BUT the Best thing most people should do is - recognize when they lack the confidence to ride/train their horses and get help ( the horse always knows and will be afraid of a rider who is afraid or lacks confidence) and take lessons! Although I do ground work and “western” under saddle training on my own - I take English lessons from someone who does not do western training or natural horsemanship - although she complements my horses behavior and willingness - ( which I partly attribute to the natural horse training method’s that I feverishly study and respect). Hope this helps…

[kashmere]

Thanks again! Love the suggestions I do have a very competent coach, and have a good amount of experience under my own belt as well - I don’t know everything, by any means, but this project isn’t my first and I’ve had good success in the past bringing both young ones and re-trains along.

Going to be doing some homework starting tonight, for sure!

[Rusty15]

I like Clinton Anderson’s stuff. Yes I know some people believe he can be too harsh at times but I pick out the good stuff that makes sense to me and tailor it. My horse does all the basics-backing up, yield hindquarters, yield shoulders, lunging with line or free lunging in round pen, and is completely desensitized to whips/bags swinging all over him. Nothing fancy but those are the basics my horses need.

[Monarch]

In addition to B Brannaman I have found Warwick Schiller videos to be helpful

[Huntin_Pony]

Melanie Smith-Taylor, the world and Olympic show jumper, spent years working with Buck Brannaman and she just published a FABULOUS book called “Riding with Life.” It has DETAILED, clear descriptions of groundwork exercises as well as the corresponding mounted work AND jumping exercises as well.

PLEASE get yourself a copy. It is probably the most easily understood compendium of this approach that has yet been written. I have personally purchased and given to friends 12 copies, so you know I believe in it.

I do not, however, have any personal connection to the book other than as a fan.

A very good source is: http://eclectic-horseman.com/mercantile/product_info.php/cPath/1_4/products_id/941

[pAin_t_Misbehavin]

Thanks for reminding me about that book, Huntin’ Pony. I just ordered it. I don’t jump anymore, but looks like there’s a lot of groundwork and flatwork in it as well. You’re the second or third person who’s recommended it.

BTW, did y’all know if you order through amazon smiles that amazon will donate 0.5% of your purchase price to a charity of your choosing (so long as the charity is registered with them of course). One of my state’s horse rescues is a smile charity so I order through amazon smiles whenever possible. Love Electic Horseman also , of course.

[Huntin_Pony]

pAin’t - Enjoy!

[Bluey]

I started riding seriously in a riding center that started and trained horses for other riding schools.
From the start we were doing ground work as part of handling the horses.

Those that mostly learn by getting on and riding tend to miss so much of what is considered horsemanship, are more strictly a rider.

I have known some top international riders that were a little short on horsemanship, but most true horsemen have an advantage in their riding because of horsemanship’s larger horizons.

I seem to remember GM being one that used to complain when he had very good proficient and effective riders that tended to miss some basics because of that.