A List : Dressage Breeding Stallions that are Olympic or CDI Grand Prix competitors

[Marydell]

I really like this list- it is pointing out two important issues-

1. That there are only a few stallions(based on the total numbers of horses that compete CDI GP) that have had successful international GP careers.
2. That certain bloodlines rise to the top consistantly

I do not know if this list was for breeding purposes but if the goal is GP, then I think any breeder would chose those lines and not care about “riding the same horses as everyone else”.
The proven lines that I am aware of are:
Donnerhall
Rubinstein
Weltmeyer, especially on the dam side with the “D” and “R” lines
In Trakhener-
Ibikus
Caprimond
Mahagoni
Donauwind
Consul

I do not know Dutch lines but I am sure there would be a few there as well that show up more than once.

Interesting tidbit for breeders: in the Atlanta Olympics, Grande shows up in the first three generations of pedigree of 18 out of the top 20 place horses in both dressage and jumping. somewhat similar numbers for Athens. When I saw this statistic, I went looking for a Grande daughter or direct granddaughter. At the time, I think there were only 5 or 6 still alive in their late 20s. I bought, in utero, a DeNiro/Grande filly.

The Hanoverian Verband has seen the near loss of this line and is now encouraging their breeders to go back to it and are offering incentives to do so. Breeders fell away from using Grande lines because of the lack of beauty and buyer interest .(we all need to sell out young stock to pay the bills after all). Hence the rise of Sandro Hit. BUT-you would be highly challenged to find any SH offspring doing CDI at any level other than Young Horse.

Just a point to help highlight the above. Today, we are seeing a rebirth of the “B” line of Bolero. The proven nick there was a TB (Bolero) on top of Grande mares. Brentano II, Brentina, etc. NOT your average beauty queens!

Maryanna Haymon
www.marydellfarm.com
2007 USEF Breeder of the Year!

[Surviving_the_Dramas]

Sorry - the 3 that I gave from this side of the globe I didn’t put pedigrees with.

Landioso is Landgraf (Holstein) x Up to Date (Calvados II).

Donnerwind is Donnerschlag x Furinde (Voltaire)

Regardez Moi is Rubinstein x Chlotilda (Consul)

[DownYonder]

Very good points by Maryanna, esp. regarding the very proven contribution of Donnerhall and Rubinstein I.

I would like to point out, however, that Sandro Hit is quite a bit younger than the other stallions listed, so it is maybe a bit too early to dismiss him as a sire capable of producing CDI offspring.
Sandro Hit - 1993
Donnerhall - 1985
Rubinstein - 1986
Ibikus - 1967
Caprimond - 1985
Mahagoni - 1974
Donauwind - 1965
Consul - 1980

Also - I have said this on another thread a while back, but will repeat it here. Sandro Hit’s first foal crop is now 12 y/o, and my understanding is that a fair number of those early foals were from jumper breeding programs. He did not begin to be heavily utilized by dressage breeders until he won the Young Dressage Horse World Championships in 1999. The first very large foal crops bred for dressage started arriving in 2000, so are just now approaching the age for GP competition. Time will tell if he will be worthy to be put on a “top CDI sire” list.

[Tiligsmom]

Karin O - Are you getting the info you need? Will this list be made available to the public?

[rodawn]

DownYonder makes an excellent point. The only difference between Sandro Boy, the jumping sensation, and Sandro Hit, the dressage sensation is a simple change in who Sandro was paired with. Sandro Hit’s personal foal crop is just now reaching that age of GP and it must also be considered that those babies are performing consistently and exceptionally well in all of their competitions. It is frequently a stand off between Donnerhall, Rubinstein and Sandro Hit in the dressage competitions, each taking their turn at various championships. Especially Rubinstein kidlets who also have Ramiro in there. Rubinstein further is a known temperament and trainability improvement stallion.

But note this:
When Sandro was matched with a mare sired by Grannus, out popped Sandro Boy, a jumping sensation. By the way, Sandro Boy has won nearly 1 million Euros in GP jumping competition. You just can’t argue with proven records.

When Sandro was paired with a mare sired by Gepard, out popped Sandro Song who proved himself very talented in Dressage. He, in turn, was paired to a mare sired by Ramino (sired by Ramiro), and out popped Sandro Hit, a dressage sensation.

A simple little change and what an awesome difference.

Regardless, the stallion, Sandro, is credited to have produced two of the most sensational stallions in the world competing in two different sports. Both of these stallions are indeed improving their respective sports by quite bit, both have proven themselves as very capable sires of traits, and both have set the bar very, very high.

[karin_o]

timeline for this list

hello all - if we can organize all this and complete an accurate and honest listing by September mid month, I would be happy. I do not want to encourage turning this thread into a discussion of stallions, only facts now…once we get the background work done then we can discuss - without all this gathered we cannot see the whole picture…choose your groups of stallions and confirm away. can someone provide us with the alphabet list again ? hint hint…:-)))))) great comments however… and many thanks for helping !!! KO

[Party_Doll]

How about the Friesian stallions Tinus and Jorrit of Proud Meadows? They both competed at Grand Prix and on the California/Florida circuits so there may have been some CDIs in there. Both are still living I believe.

Also did the Trakehner stallion Pregelstrand compete in a CDI? He may be deceased but they still list him for frozen.

Did you get Olympic medalist Weyden, grandson of Wenzel? I think he just died this year.

[Lgd1]

[QUOTE=Lgd1;4305901]
Mooiman (Flemmingh x Roemer)
Lorenzo (Ferro)
Kasjmir
Millenium[/QUOTE]

Mooiman, KWPN, born 1994, stands in the UK at Holdenfold Stud. Competed by Angela Crane for Ireland. Second one down on the link. Placed 6th at Zwolle CDI3* and placed at Pompadour CDI3* both in 2008

http://www.holdenfolddressage.co.uk/stallions.html

Lorenzo, 1993, KWPN. By Clavecimbel. Owned and ridden by Wayne Channon, numerous CDI starts, several world cup wins, was short-listed for Athens 2004. Done quite a few CDIOs

Kasjmir, 1994, Dutch-bred, several CDI starts and placings.

Both based in Belgium.

Millenium - all the info is here:

http://www.hobgoblins-stud.com/millenium.htm

[Lgd1]

Diamond Hit

http://www.brookhousestud.com/2007/_html/main.php?id=8&&taal=en&&page=hengst

Wie Weltmeyer

http://www.brookhousestud.com/2007/_html/main.php?taal=en&&page=hengst&&id=14

Lancet

http://www.brookhousestud.com/2007/_html/main.php?taal=en&&page=hengst&&id=11

Don SChufro

http://www.bluehors.net/cms/index.php?idcat=18&changelang=2

[system]

ARGUS (Pion x Jasper)

http://www.malouin.net/Argus.html
(here it says: Argus is the only horse in the world that was simultaneously successful in BOTH Grand Prix jumping and International dressage competitions.)

[Hilltop_Farm_Inc]

Parabol & Cabaret

Both Cabaret (Cor de la Bryere-Landgraf) and Parabol (Paradox I-Waldschuetz) were Grand Prix competitors at the CDI level.

[drsg4me]

What about Uniform the dutch stallion?
I know he did alot at GP, anyone know if he did any CDIs?

[Piaffing]

I would like to add Reipo, Swedish warmblood. Won bronze with Ashley Holzer in 1988 for Canada.

[imajicadutch]

Argus never competed at GP dressage, although he did do GP jumping.

[karin_o]

This is the work we need !

Maybe over the weekend someone could combine the list again…though there is soooo much to view at the Championships ! Thanks for your all help !

[Arathita]

Karin,

What is this list for? Perhaps you can help organize and edit the numerous stallions people have done research on and listed here? You likely know more about your question than others on the list, having purchased, bred and competed some top stallions at the top levels.

A.

[TouchstoneAcres]

dressage breeding stallions

580 Maestoso Monteaura, 1984 Olympics for Yugoslavia, Lipizzan

[torontodressage]

Maybe already mentioned :

Kigali (WorldChampion Jumping and now member of the Dutch A-dressage team under Marlies van Baalen)

Florianus II Sold by Karin Rehbein to Iron Spring Farm and now very succesfull under Belinda Nairn Wertmann

[caddym]

what about Bordeaux ridden by kathy priest?

[karin_o]

Someone really good with a computer can do this (more) easily

and I know it would take me all day. I may be able to buy great stallions, but use a computer …not so great. I cannot type very well, I used all my brain cells to learn to sit the trot ! Haha ha.

As explained, we are looking for backup info on our “stallion list” listings, alphabetized, to confirm if they were internationally shown in the Olympic/CDI Arenas . That’s the help needed now.

Actually, I do have a plan. For some background, it was encouraging to read REED ON BREEDING, in Horse International Magazine where he says “if we are to achieve our goal of breeding world class athletes…then we must use world class stallions and mares in our breeding program and make informed, creative, and bold choices about which genetic endowments to combine each year to produce a foal.”

One year ago at the Global Dressage Forum ( not to be missed in 2009, , held at end of October in the Netherlands) colleague Laurens van Lieren (former Dutch young rider, previous rider for Hexagon’s Louisville) suggested to the Forum that a Club for the top stallions, the stallions that have made it all the way up the ladder to Grand Prix CDI and Olympics be formed.

This list then calls the stallions to attention that genetically, environmentally, physically and by their training make them stand apart. They are special, and we can create a Club in their honor. They survived the test of time and now can be recognized. With the benefits that social networking provides we have so many folks out there that can do the research - and we can credit COTHers and the hard work that goes into creating a list of this size and depth.

I think its a fascinating subject and worthy of our computer time. Hope you can help. Karin Offield