Where is the line drawn between normal head movement while the horse is trotting vs lameness head bobbing? I have read some studies that say there’s a lot of variation in the way individual horses move without necessarily being lame. Then other sources saying that any degree of angle change in head carriage between a horse landing on the RF vs LF is lameness. But if head carriage is differing by ≤1-5 degrees when it lands on a specific leg — so subtle, and definitely not anywhere near bobbing territory — and it is otherwise moving well, is that lameness or just an imperfect horse moving as horses do?
It depends.
I went down a tech rabbithole with my old vet. I thought my mare was short behind and he had a new computerized lameness monitor to play with.
We put electrodes all over her and discovered that she was not short behind, she was off on one of her fronts. All this was too subtle for the human eye. We blocked her hoof and things improved a bit but not entirely. Because we were so set on watching the machine neither of us picked up her hoof.
We left it at that. A couple days later my trimmer came out and said “she’s worn that front foot very unevenly medial versus lateral” rebalanced her and all was good. She stopped being short behind too.
So in this case a mechanical imbalance that likely wasn’t even causing pain was enough to trip to head bob sensor on the lameness evaluator machine.
So I would say an asymmetric head bob at the trot is evidence of something but it might not be pain per se.
I had a similar experience. I had replaced my blown out paddock boots with new ones of the same model. I wore them to the barn, and a barn friend asked me what I’d done to myself, I was limping. I was very puzzled and said I felt fine. When I got home I realized I was wearing one new and one busted up old boot, and that was enough to create a hitch in my gitalong that another horse person could notice.
So the thing about the perceptible head bob is that it’s a symptom. If it’s a symptom of a mechanical issue that doesn’t create pain, it’s not lameness. If it’s a symptom of pain, it’s lameness.
When I’m wearing two different boots and my walk is uneven, I’m not lame. But when I’m walking funny because there’s a tiny pain in my foot, I’m lame.
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How interesting. I love learning about this kind of stuff.
Again as a hypothetical: let’s say horse has a 2* angle difference asymmetric head bob on the LF. No signs of pain and is moving well. But the “head bob”is perceptible. Do you ride? When do you say, no, even if I don’t see any other signs this head movement is cause for me not to get on?
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I would not ride a horse exhibiting new signs of head bob at the trot. I would want this fully checked out before I got on again.
We had an aged mare at the barn with a slight club foot. In the last years of her life, she had a definite head bob at the trot but went forward enthusiastically. There were a number of things going on with her, but that particular head bob seemed to be mechanical. I would not be comfortable riding a horse like that, but other people rode and enjoyed her, and she was very very happy out on the trails.
I’m not sure what a 2 degree angle difference means IRL. I’m pretty sensitive to front end lameness. I would be off and looking for the cause right away.
I should add that although there is a possibility of mechanical imbalance, head bob is usually about pain and should be assumed to be pain until proven otherwise.
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I watched a YT video where someone took still shots of lame horses and measured the differences in the head carriage angles when landing on one leg vs the other to demonstrate varying degrees of lameness. I’m not sure what a 2* difference would look like either, I just picked a subtle-sounding number 
I’m also pretty sensitive to it but the motivation for my question was wondering if there were more definitive guidelines to assessing very subtle NQR-ness
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Other causes might include “rein lameness” in a ridden horse. Or proprioceptive deficits (neuro problem).
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Very subtle NQR is very hard to definitively diagnose. The issue can be anywhere between the hoof and the spine. In front it can also be neck, in back it can be pelvis.
Very subtle NQR can be early warning signals of a hoof abscess, navicular, suspensory injuries, arthritic changes, etc. The head bob is just the start of the journey. That’s why you don’t ride a visibly lame horse. You might make him much worse.
I’m interested in where this concern is coming from. Are you in a position where you are being pushed to ride a visibly lame horse, like in lessons? Are you trying to diagnose your own horse? Are you trying to buy a horse and wondering about PPE?
I would say that any perceptible irregularity of gait, whether head bob in front or short or uneven behind, is a strong warning sign to stop riding your horse and call in a vet for diagnostics. Period. Normal healthy horses don’t have perceptible irregularity.
That said I have no idea what you’ve been watching on FB, and modern tech can allow us to capture movement that is otherwise imperceptible.
If this FB group is using public source video of random horses to try to prove that every performance horse is “actually lame” then I would just scroll on by.
If this is actually from some legitimate vet research project and the videos are taken of their own patients or research subjects, then presumably they also can say what the diagnostics was.
The source of the data matters.
Anyhow degree of lameness is secondary to cause of lameness. A horse with a stone in its shoe can be fixed immediately compared to a horse that just pulled its deep digital tendon. A horse with arthritis may work out of it with warmup whereas a soft tissue injury will get worse with work. You really need to know what the issue is.
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To take your question literally- No.
A horse that has lost ONE shoe will bob its head, but it is not “lame”
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There’s no concern. I’m asking for learning purposes
My answer to this question would have been different 3 months ago before I purchased my new horse. Before, I’d say yes, always a sign of lameness somewhere. Now…I think there are instances where it may not be a sign of true lameness as we think of it.
My new horse hadn’t been maintained exactly to the level I would have expected for a performance horse. His left front had a low and really underrun heel. His right front, however, was more upright and proper. Due to this discrepency in angles between his two fronts, at a trot in a circle to the right (and most noticeable on a short line), he compensates. His head doesn’t bob all that noticeably, but his gate definitely loses the tempo of a sound horse. His whole body is compensating for the mismatched feet.
He is gradually improving with new shoes, and pour in pads, while the farrier is trying to bring that left toe back for proper heel growth, but it will take his body a while to figure out new ways to move more balanced. Does he appear lame while riding–no. But you lunge him on a lead rope at a trot to the right and you can see it. He’s not short stepping with his hinds at all, but he’s more “stabby” and short strided on front right. He has to move differently to pick up that shoulder more with two different height feet. Work in progress. The vet who did his PPE is one of the most respected lameness vets (and a former farrier) in this region of the country and people haul from all over for his expertise. He said it’ll remedy itself once the feet are matching again.
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A dental issue can cause a head bob. BTDT with my mini.
This is a really good example of a gait imbalance due to mechanical hoof issues that could lead to problems further up the body. But you’ve got excellent vet advice, it sounds like, and you are in the process of fixing it.
I was also thinking that if OP was looking at still photos of horses with tilted heads, that’s not the same as a bob in movement. I’m also wondering if she horses were under saddle. Contact and asking for bend can cause a horse to tilt at the poll if it’s not totally working right
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I agree with the others in saying it doesn’t mean lameness every time. It does mean there is something, somewhere that is contributing to the head bob.
Sometimes finding that reason is just as bad as lameness…
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I’m living this conundrum too. Mare NQR on left hind after colic/splits and a bunch of stall rest. You can see the short stride from the ground here and there, feels AWFUL from the saddle. X-rays, blocks, injections, massage, pemf, chiro, bemr… still NQR, but not in pain (chestnut mare so she has opinions and expresses them). Happy as a clam doing anything, even jumping…I’m stumped. Is she lame? Is it just a mechanical hitch that only came to light after losing muscling during stall rest? We’re currently taking the, work her and see if it gets better or worse, approach (per 3 vets advice), while I pay off my credit card.
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A horse can be bridle lame. That is a rider/trainer issue.
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I’ve always understood rein lame to be a horse that goes short behind because of poor riding and training. It’s pretty common in both older lesson horses and incompetent lower level dressage. I have also seen horses get see sawed on the bit to “go round” enough that they develop a head swing at the trot.
My own horse will tilt the poll in lateral work unless I’m.really careful
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First, how cool is that electrode monitoring thing
Second, it must be too early in the morning but I can’t figure out what you are saying about lameness.
“ When I’m wearing two different boots and my walk is uneven, I’m not lame. But when I’m walking funny because there’s a tiny pain in my foot, I’m lame.”
Lameness requires pain?
I always thought lameness was the inability to move functionally regardless if accompanied by pain.
But I don’t know much in this area, so …
Hmmm. When I was wearing 2 different boots I looked NQR but I felt nothing. I didn’t even know I had the wrong boot on until I got home and took them off. I looked like I was limping but I didn’t feel anything.
If I had a blister on my heel I would be waking oddly and also in pain.
If this was a horse you’d see the gait was off in both cases and you’d want to investigate. Unfortunately you can’t just yell across the barn parking lot “what did you do to yourself, you’re limping” and get an answer from a horse.
I’d say benign painless mechanical problems are rare in horses, but hoof imbalance in my horse or club foot in the other examples can be similar to me wearing mismatched boots.
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The American College of Veterinary Surgeons:
" Lameness refers to an abnormality of a horse’s gait or stance. It can be caused by pain, a mechanical problem, or a neurological condition. Lameness, most commonly results from pain in the musculoskeletal system (muscles, tendons, ligaments, bones, or joints) leading to abnormal movement at the walk, trot, or canter."
A couple examples of “mechanical” lameness might be a horse with fibrotic myopathy or one which had a previous injury that resulted in a severed extensor tendon.
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Hey Scribbler, I know this is months later after this discussion but I was wondering if you could tell me the name of the system your vet used? The computerized lameness monitor? Was it thermography? Curious just because I’ve been looking into more effective diagnostic tools for my own horse. Thx! Megan
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