Stubbern Mare: I like Anky and I think her horses are beautiful (don’t care for the rollkur but thats seemed to have gotten much better) and I think they did a lovely test, but a halt and salute is a halt and a salute. Its part of the test, it is a rule and I know after I just watched again SHE DID NOT SALUTE at the end of the freestyle. So why wasn’t she DQ??? Is is because she is Anky?? Is it because they don’t want to have to explain that to the world? Is it because she spent 80,000:eek: to have her music composed to her horse?? I think fair is fair and when something is so obvious as not saluting and if its a rule that they are DQ then it should be upheld everywhere. Even at the Olympic level.
[QUOTE=freestyle2music;3459230]
3 times Olympic Gold in a row, doesn’t that say something about correctness ?. Correctness these days is showing what the judges want to see. So burn your old books and start reading some more up to date ones.[/QUOTE]
You are kidding right? Please be kidding, because I would hate to think that you really believe that correctness in dressage (that would be basic training of a horse) is showing the judges what they want to see.
Edited to Add: The FEI Rules
Article 430
-
Salute.
Competitors must take the reins in one hand at the salute. -
Beginning/End of test.
A test begins with the entry at A and ends after
the salute at the end of the test, as soon as the horse moves forward. -
Leaving arena during competition.
A horse leaving the arena
completely, with all four feet, during a dressage competition between the time
of entry and the time of exit at A, will be eliminated. -
Details to the Freestyle Test
At the beginning and end of a Freestyle Test a halt for the salute is
compulsory. The test time will start after the rider moves forward after the
halt.
Reading the rules together, she should have been eliminated. A halt “for the salute” is compulsory in the freestyle at the end of the test. The test does not end until “after” the final salute, so technically she did not finish her test because she never saluted. And of course, “A horse leaving the arena completely, with all four feet, during a dressage competition between the time of entry and the time of exit at A, will be eliminated.”
[QUOTE=freestyle2music;3459230]
3 times Olympic Gold in a row, doesn’t that say something about correctness ?. Correctness these days is showing what the judges want to see. So burn your old books and start reading some more up to date ones.[/QUOTE]
:lol: Ahhh, I see! Well, I think maybe you should have computers judging if that’s the case. I mean if everyone in the world is being held up to one person’s correctness you should just have a machine that gives proper consistent scoring based on pre-conceived notions so that there is no mistaking it. I don’t know much about dressage, and now I really understand why I have no desire to learn more, because if this farce is what your sport is based on then it’s not a sport it’s a popularity contest.
An Olympic gymnist doesn’t win the gold when he fails to stick the dismount and falls on his face, regardless how many flips he perfectly executed 45 seconds earlier. An Olympic relay swimmer gets his whole team disqualified if he dives off the block before his team mate’s hand touches the wall, regardless if he can set a new world record with his swim time.
If a horse cannot halt (or better yet - if a rider can’t be bothered long enough to halt) during an Olympic test - they do NOT deserve a gold medal.
When you get to that level you do NOT just blow off the easy stuff because it’s somehow beneath you. Personally I think they should have rung the bell on her for failure to execute a movement. I don’t care what kind of a time bomb the horse is. If he’s so dangerous that demanding he halt would send him in a tailspin, then maybe they need to take a step back with the horse and establish some basics before taking him onto the world stage. It’s an embarassment to her country to not salute the judges. It may not be required by FEI rule, but pretty damned rude to not do it.
Good one Auventura!
I agree with you. Any horse can get nervous and blow a movement. But my gripe is with not awarding a 0, or a disqualification for failing to execute the movement. Horses are not machines and even the best of them do things wrong sometimes. No problem there. But it should have been “awarded” accordingly by the judging panel. Even a 3 or a 4 is TOO HIGH. It should have been a 0 by ALL judges, because the movement WAS NOT EXECUTED AT ALL. My horse has gotten a 58% on a training level test when she was being a complete lunatic during the test, and it was very much deserved. Horses will be horses, and that includes Salinero. But then it needs to be judged accordingly.
And total failure to salute the judges is inexcusable.
[QUOTE=flshgordon;3458843]
If I were to just not halt in a test, I bet I would get a 1 or 2 so how on EARTH can you say she deserved 5, 6 or 7??? Just because that’s the lowest score received doesn’t mean squat[/QUOTE]
Yes, me too. I work my butt off for a straight, immobile halt and I get a 7… she doesn’t perform it and she gets a 7. What gives?
Any evidence that supports the assertion that she “blew off” the judges?
David O’Connor didn’t get disqualified for unauthorized assistance. He once went off course and realized his mistake due to the crowd shouting at him.
Unauthorized assistance. And yet he was not disqualified.
I’m not sure a lapse (not saluting) is an “embarrassment to your country”. Hanoi Jane might fit that label. Rude? If it was an intentional lapse and we know for a fact that she’s said something like, Taxes are for the little people". The lady is hardly going around making farting sounds with her armpit. She’s not drunk and running around town painted orange and puking in the gutters. Now that might be a little embarrassing.
I dunno. Let’s compare. How 'bout y’all saddle up your horses and perform the same test in similar circumstances. Then let us critique you.
I’ve got my red pencil sharpened.
Don’t like her style, don’t care for the horse.
But the torches and pitchforks are a bit much, don’t you think? :winkgrin:
So she got too high of a score for that movement. Maybe she should have received a zero. Judges aren’t perfect. Heck, it’s even possible that a judge misses something another judge catches.
J Swan, no the crowd didn’t shout at him. Watch the video. They all took a big breath. But luckily, everyone did not shout anything out. The GJ and everyone reviewed the tapes to make sure before he won. Don’t lump eventers with this fiasco! We have enough troubles!
I completly agree with “Auventera Two”, word for word.
I also agree with a earlier statement, the halt is such a basic movement and very important movement. And at that level to not be able to bring your horse to halt so that you can salute properly is in my opinion unacceptable. The tests say “Halt- Immobilitly” not slow down.
And the fact that she didn’t salute just compeltly blows my mind I didn’t realize at first but after reading this and checking, wow. I just cant believe that she didn’t get DQ. I know people who did a half @$$ salute b/c there horse was being goofy or whatever and they were drilled by the judge. I personally believe saluting not only shows respect for the judge but also for your horse and your partnership throught what you are doing. It just blew my mind that she didn’t.
well, hate to break it to you all, but it obviously did not bother the experienced international dressage judges. And those are the only opinions that count. 
You’re right - it was a giant collective gasp! Didn’t mean to lump eventers in with this mess!
You gotta admit though - that was a judgment call on the part of the GJ. I think they made the right call - but it could have gone the other way, too.
Though I doubt anyone would call David O’Connor an embarrassment to his country. At least not in my presence. :mad:
I dunno, I’m just getting a little tired of the way she rips off her hat and cheers for herself the end of every ride.
I noticed it in the GPS even though she didn’t have so much to cheer about.
The first time someone is so thrilled with their performance that they just bust out in emotion is charming. She seems to be making a habit of it and is looking more like a Broadway actress hoping for more curtain calls.
And yeah, this is picky and catty and I can’t ride like her and yadda yadda. I’d just be more impressed with a little humility at this stage in her career. Even if she has no reason to be humble.
[QUOTE=J Swan;3459557]
David O’Connor didn’t get disqualified for unauthorized assistance. He once went off course and realized his mistake due to the crowd shouting at him.
Unauthorized assistance. And yet he was not disqualified. [/QUOTE]
I assume you’re talking about his much-talked about show jumping round when he won the gold in eventing? He never went off course. Didn’t happen. He did momentarily lose his concentration when he glanced back at a fence Custom Made had smacked and dropped off his pace a bit and admits to a moment of confusion, but in no way did he ever go off course, nor did he cross his tracks, miss a fence, nothing. There was zip, zilch, nada reason to penalize him.
As for the assertion that the crowd shouting at him was what straightened him out, well, that’s a nice fairy tale, but O’Connor himself has stated repeatedly that the shouting had no affect on him or where he was on the course. Honestly … do you really think that a bunch of people shouting several random words – “no!” “the wall!” “OHHHHH!!” “Wrong one!” “Turn!!” etc. – comes across as something other than an undecipherable bunch of noise? Even in venues such as the indoor arenas for the World Cup show jumping, where the packed crowds cluck and kiss and moan and groan and yell and shout, the riders pretty much all say that they are so focused, they don’t hear it.
I dunno. Let’s compare. How 'bout y’all saddle up your horses and perform the same test in similar circumstances. Then let us critique you.
This argument never makes sense whenever it gets trotted out. Just because I’ve never roped a steer in my life, that doesn’t mean I can’t tell when someone has a good or bad throw. I’ve sat on some cutting horses but never ridden in a futurity; also doesn’t mean I don’t know the difference between a horse that works a cow well and one that doesn’t.
Rules are rules. Sure, a lot of people bend them and get away with it, but usually when they get broken, there are consequences. I’m pretty sure what people are saying is that there’s a rule saying the judges must be saluted at the beginning and end of a test, or one is DQ’d. Treating them to champagne afterward doesn’t count – although it probably gives one a head start on the next competition.
I really don’t want to spoil your party !
How often do i have to spell this out :mad:
Not performing a compulsory movement means a zero, not disqualification.
And you know what ! Not having delivered a reserve-music-tape means DQ, and like in Sydney (thank god) the judges (Eric Lette) let Ulla Salzgeber restart her test at the end of the competition.
BTW
Anky scored three 8’s and two 7’s for her halt at the start of her test.
I humbly disagree
[QUOTE=BoysNightOut;3458965]
I’m sorry…I don’t generally post on Dressage…but if your horse can’t handle halting correctly without having issues, that’s pathetic and should not be winning gold medals. I don’t care how fantastic other movements are. A halt is one of the most basic commands, and if your horse can’t even manage that, then well…it’s sad what wins in Dressage today.[/QUOTE]
As I have stated before and often… and just a little while ago, Salinero is just not my cup of tea, and I don’t find him at all that much fun too watch, even when the music is bang on, and the changes are there, etc… BUT, the tests to me are designed the way they are for a reason… To give individual scores for a movement, and then move on to the next movement… Some horses just can’t halt, and I’ve complained about Salinero’s halt and Anky’s lack of salute. BUT IMHO, in any dressage test… it is just one movement, one score, then it factors into the test…
I have a cute connemara gelding that has NEVER gotten above a 5 on a trot lengthen… An extended trot, ha… it won’t ever happen (well not with me on his back), but will that keep me from competing him higher? NO… WE will just make it up on our lateral work (which is fabulous), our free walks, our rein backs, and yes:D our halts… etc…
Ya know, if it had been Salinero hopping around the way Brentina did in the GP, all and sundry here would have been bitching that it was the horse standing up to her because of the way Anky rides. Instead, we had the cannonization of Saint Debbie.
If it had been Salinero doing the eff up instead of Satchmo, instead of a thread re Is Satchmo Lame, it would have been Salinero Against Rollkur.
Steffen got well and truly fu*ked out of a medal because of the German judge. I would be more worried about that then how what you saw on TV didn’t look right to you. Obviously the judges thought it was sufficient.
[QUOTE=Coreene;3459667]
Ya know, if it had been Salinero hopping around the way Brentina did in the GP, all and sundry here would have been bitching that it was the horse standing up to her because of the way Anky rides. Instead, we had the cannonization of Saint Debbie.
If it had been Salinero doing the eff up instead of Satchmo, instead of a thread re Is Satchmo Lame, it would have been Salinero Against Rollkur.
Steffen got well and truly fu*ked out of a medal because of the German judge. I would be more worried about that then how what you saw on TV didn’t look right to you. Obviously the judges thought it was sufficient.[/QUOTE]
Salinero was uneven in the Grand Prix Special. Tense or lame?
Why should anyone just swallow what the judges say? That would be naive and maybe even stupid. We all have our own eyes and brains, which tell some of us that Anky’s work on Salinero in the kur wasn’t worth an 82% score, any more than Isabella Werth’s was worth 78%.
Unfortunately Feo does not help Anky’s case at all.
Why does he afford himself bragging rights. Did he once lick her boots?
Oh to have a front row seat at the next Global Dressage Forum when the topic of Reixinger comes up. Coreene dearest, you will take notes won’t you?
Even his bell ringing style is bringing up suggestions of favouritism.
