A message to the Halt Police of COTH

[BahamaMama]

[QUOTE=slc2;3467003]
What amazes me is why people have to EITHER WORSHIP OR HATE the topriders. Neither is productive, healthy, good sportsmanship, or will develop or improve anyone’s knowledge or ability.

This one is kind, that one is mean, this one is good, this one is bad, it’s all nonsense. Based on something you read in an article or saw on tv of the person for a split second of their life.

Everyone has good and bad points, everyone is a mixture of different things.

Come on, they are just people. They work hard, they practice, they qualify for the Olympics, they go there, they ride, it’s a horse show.

This kind of thing doesn’t educate people or give them a better eye. It represents the worst side of us, the side that worst of all, judges people’s intentions, but also their worth, morals, attitudes, ethics from a few random actions during a few seconds, without knowing anything about them. That is, without any doubt in my mind, the worst part of us, and the worst part of clique and crowd psychology, which emboldens people to attack others just like being in a pack affects dogs.

THe comments are all over the place, no one here can agree about what was good or bad, this one loved that pirouette, the other hated it…and nearly all the comments on the freestyle wind up to ‘I don’t like that type of music’ which is not the point of the freestyle.

And no matter how you talk about a top rider, negative or positive, it still doesn’t make you a part of some ‘in crowd’. Which is I think what all this is wishing for.[/QUOTE]

SLC2

You sound like a very wise human being :yes::yes: but isnt it pearls for the swines

[ToN_Farm]

What I would like to know is why some people need to worship at an altar and can’t think critically for themselves.

Pardon me for being dumb, but I truly don’t understand what that means, or if was meant for me.

For the record, I don’t worship anyone or anything. I just happen to like the modern dressage riders and they way the horses move. Of course I see mistakes; I’m not blind.

If there is any group falling into the worship category, it is the bunch that are peeing their pampers playing that dusty video of Klimke over and over.

[Beverley]

@slc2;3467003

What amazes me is why people have to EITHER WORSHIP OR HATE the topriders. Neither is productive, healthy, good sportsmanship, or will develop or improve anyone’s knowledge or ability.

Some of us don’t have a dog in the fight and don’t really have strong feelings about any particular riders.

But, having been taught only classical dressage, not competitive dressage, we just worry in general about the loss of the horsemanship- the basic truisms about training a horse for ‘any’ discipline. I think you mentioned in an early post asking for a ‘little bit’ of piaffe at age 5 or 6. The notion is utterly wrong based on what I was taught. You don’t ask for things until a horse is physically and mentally ready. And it really does take years of conditioning for a horse to have the right musculature for more complex movements. At all levels of dressage, all I see is people cramming a horse in a frame, front to back, and cranking around in that frame for hours on end. So yes, I bemoan the decreasing quality of the horsemanship- not just in dressage, though. People see what others are doing and copy it, without knowing what’s really involved. And you end up with a lot of upper level horses who do not look like they are happy to be there.

As you point out, it’s fundamentally just a horse show, so people do what it takes to win at the show- a pretty universal thing. Some of us think it’s a shame, given the beauty of classical dressage.

[STF]

Or
What amazes me is why people have to EITHER WORSHIP OR HATE the topriders. Neither is productive, healthy, good sportsmanship, or will develop or improve anyone’s knowledge or ability.

And then there are some of us who just dont care… :lol:

[slc2]

“Some of us were only taught classical dressage, not competitive dressage”

How arrogant and how ‘I’m better than you’ can you get?

There is no such two different things. There is just dressage.

“Some of us don’t care”.

That is probably a more rational state of mind.

[AiryFairy]

Exactly…and if you look around at a lot of the lower level shows, you’ll see people copying Anky’s Rollkur “crank and yank and stand on the curb” method, you’ll see a lot of horses broken at the poll and curled behind the bit, never even coming close to being on the bit, because according to the Queen of Dressage, that’s the right way to train them. So where are the judges who actually know what a correct frame is?

[QUOTE=Beverley;3467189]
Some of us don’t have a dog in the fight and don’t really have strong feelings about any particular riders.

But, having been taught only classical dressage, not competitive dressage, we just worry in general about the loss of the horsemanship- the basic truisms about training a horse for ‘any’ discipline. I think you mentioned in an early post asking for a ‘little bit’ of piaffe at age 5 or 6. The notion is utterly wrong based on what I was taught. You don’t ask for things until a horse is physically and mentally ready. And it really does take years of conditioning for a horse to have the right musculature for more complex movements. At all levels of dressage, all I see is people cramming a horse in a frame, front to back, and cranking around in that frame for hours on end. So yes, I bemoan the decreasing quality of the horsemanship- not just in dressage, though. People see what others are doing and copy it, without knowing what’s really involved. And you end up with a lot of upper level horses who do not look like they are happy to be there.

As you point out, it’s fundamentally just a horse show, so people do what it takes to win at the show- a pretty universal thing. Some of us think it’s a shame, given the beauty of classical dressage.[/QUOTE]

[canticle]

@slc2;3467222

“Some of us were only taught classical dressage, not competitive dressage”

How arrogant and how ‘I’m better than you’ can you get?

There is no such two different things. There is just dressage.

Sjef would disagree!

[Roan]

[QUOTE=slc2;3467222]
“Some of us were only taught classical dressage, not competitive dressage”

How arrogant and how ‘I’m better than you’ can you get?

There is no such two different things. There is just dressage.

. . .[/QUOTE]

Slc? Washington just called. Apparently your visa is being revoked and they are expecting you to board the next shuttle back to Planet X.

Eileen

[freestyle2music]

[QUOTE=ToN Farm;3467188]
Pardon me for being dumb, but I truly don’t understand what that means, or if was meant for me.

For the record, I don’t worship anyone or anything. I just happen to like the modern dressage riders and they way the horses move. Of course I see mistakes; I’m not blind.

If there is any group falling into the worship category, it is the bunch that are peeing their pampers playing that dusty video of Klimke over and over.[/QUOTE]

And they also jump on their soapbox proclaiming that this was the best ride they ever saw, while Reiner himself stated that it was one of his worst rides.

But I have to admit the Halt of this ride was a 10.

[_Freedom]

@Roan;3467367

Slc? Washington just called. Apparently your visa is being revoked and they are expecting you to board the next shuttle back to Planet X.

Eileen

http://www.movie-list.com/onvideo-ca/shop.php?c=1&n=967000&i=B0000542CN&x=Man_from_Planet_X_Full_Screen

[Beverley]

@slc2;3467222

“Some of us were only taught classical dressage, not competitive dressage”

How arrogant and how ‘I’m better than you’ can you get?

There is no such two different things. There is just dressage.

Name calling doesn’t become you. No arrogance involved, just callin’ a spade a spade. And no, what is winning in arenas at all levels these days does not come close to passing for REAL dressage, if you prefer that adjective.

If you held up any of a bunch of examples during the Olympics to, say, the late Col Lundquist, (or instructors from Saumur you’ve never heard of) and told him/them that was REAL dressage- you probably wouldn’t like the response.

[Sabine]

[QUOTE=Beverley;3468013]
Name calling doesn’t become you. No arrogance involved, just callin’ a spade a spade. And no, what is winning in arenas at all levels these days does not come close to passing for REAL dressage, if you prefer that adjective.

If you held up any of a bunch of examples during the Olympics to, say, the late Col Lundquist, (or instructors from Saumur you’ve never heard of) and told him/them that was REAL dressage- you probably wouldn’t like the response.[/QUOTE]

I really believe that classical dressage is the foundation of all dressage. I just also believe and know(having watched enough top level riders) that they don’t take as long to get the basics done and then move on to the ‘new land’ the land where the horse is really challenged and pushed and becomes a flamboyant dancer- .
You can confidently say- that if a horse in today’s performance environment doesn’t have at least 3 or 4 FABULOUS movements in store- it won’t score in the top 5. That’s just the reality of where the sport has gone. Mind you all this HAS TO BE delivered in an eye-pleasing, elegant fashion. The stuff that happened with Satchmo is NOT ok. Spoke to quite a few german friends and they all thought that that was unheard of…

Of course the ODG’s will not consider this dressage- but that is more because THEY didn’t come up with it in their time-- it’s just the natural development of any sport. Look at swimming, diving, gymnastics and compare videos from the 84 Olympics with todays’…no comparison…we’re talking today triples are the standard- then they were the exception and so on…change is inevitable and a sign of the natural balance of life. We don’t stay in the same place- although we all would love to at times…

[Sabine]

[QUOTE=ToN Farm;3467188]
Pardon me for being dumb, but I truly don’t understand what that means, or if was meant for me.

For the record, I don’t worship anyone or anything. I just happen to like the modern dressage riders and they way the horses move. Of course I see mistakes; I’m not blind.

If there is any group falling into the worship category, it is the bunch that are peeing their pampers playing that dusty video of Klimke over and over.[/QUOTE]

Lov’ ya ToN for that one- I almost pee’d my pants and I don’t have pampers…LOL!

[Mardi]

[QUOTE=seeuatx;3466898]

Some horses you can force the halt issue, others it blows their entire groove. QUOTE]

Why would you have to “force the halt issue” on any well started, well schooled, and well ridden horse ?

[ise]

This is so ridiculous to have a debate about removing the halt from any level of Dressage. Stopping a horse is a BASIC in riding and training - not an option. I always feel this is like someone saying - well we can do most of the movements and get really high scores so phooey on the ones we can’t do. Sort of a “thumb the nose” to not only the show and the judges but to the other competitors as well.

[slc2]

And if you had a horse that could for years win everything there is to win in dressage, and win you 3 gold medals at the Olympics but didn’t halt so good when a stadium of people out there were screaming their heads off, and the halt didn’t have a coefficient, you’d be screaming like mad for the other side of the debate, ROFLMAO.

[DownYonder]

[QUOTE=ise@ssl;3468349]
This is so ridiculous to have a debate about removing the halt from any level of Dressage. Stopping a horse is a BASIC in riding and training - not an option. I always feel this is like someone saying - well we can do most of the movements and get really high scores so phooey on the ones we can’t do. Sort of a “thumb the nose” to not only the show and the judges but to the other competitors as well.[/QUOTE]

Agree. Anky and Sjef suggested several years ago that the halt be removed from the GP test. FEI declined, so A&S took matters into their own hands. They are thumbing their noses at the FEI and the judges, and the judges are letting them get away with it by continuing to give them Gold medals. We can’t put all the blame on A&S - the judges are also complicit in this.

[STF]

Ive graduated to “pull up’s” and no need for Pampers.
But… still aint going to waste a ton of mental energy wondering why Anky is or what Sief is saying or not, or what type of toliet paper they are using these days. Nope, but thank ya anyway!

[STF]

@DownYonder;3468450

Agree. Anky and Sjef suggested several years ago that the halt be removed from the GP test. FEI declined, so A&S took matters into their own hands. They are thumbing their noses at the FEI and the judges, and the judges are letting them get away with it by continuing to give them Gold medals. We can’t put all the blame on A&S - the judges are also complicit in this.

One day Tami Hoag will write a book about it and we will know the “inside edition”…:lol:

[beeblebrox]

"BLBGP

So someone else posted that not saluting the judges at the beginning and end = elimination. Did they make that up?"

At A dressage show at a MUCH lower level on a super green and hotish TB I failed to drop my arm to salute as I was a tad worried about letting go of one rein SEEING the judges look told me she was ANNOYED and I did drop my arm. MY SCORE THE movement… 2 and her comment NICE afterthought