A New Wave of KeyBoard Warriors?

Very good points about the comparisons with human athletes.

I’m thinking how I can pull out that example verbally, in conversation, as they bring it up (I do not) … but I have a feeling that these critics have not observed human athletes enough to even know what I am talking about without a photo. Even if I refer to track & field athletes generally, they’ve never paid attention.

Which comes to the root of the issue, IMO. These are folk who don’t actually know much about athletics. They have never educated themselves on any branch of the subject, horse or human. Because they don’t have to. As pointed out, they don’t participate in equine or human sport at the seriously demanding level that brings all this up.

One of these critics who is in my world also doesn’t know much about how horses’ bodies are built, how muscles work in warm-up, how joint fluid can be encouraged to work more smoothly today. She actually has said this in conversation. I wouldn’t say that I know a lot about these things, but I know at least something.

Please come talk to some folks in my horse-neighborhood … :grin:

But they will argue about it until your ears fall off. Somehow their flat-withered round WB is the model that a lean, angular TB must aspire to.

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Posts like that are damaging and self-serving. I saw that Instagram photo and didn’t see a horse lacking musculature - I did see a horse that was lean and very fit. I too have seen those posts deconstructing the 5* horses - I gave it a college try to slog through but ended up rolling my eyes and scrolling past.

There is anatomy out there that is conducive to specific sport pursuits - this is why greyhounds trend towards long legs and lean body with little fat, and why labradors or other all-utility dogs are stout and of a stronger constitution. It is why marathon runners (human) tend to be lean of limb and corded, and body-builders have broad trunks and big muscle. It is also why race horses have huge shoulders, why dressage horses have low/mid placed stifles, why jumpers have low placed stifles, and why eventers have a greyhound-type silhouette when compared to other disciplines. People need to learn that a fat hunter would not be able to physically do the job eventing commands of it, and this is why eventing horses trend towards a more rangy physique that might never look as “fleshy” as a sausage-barreled WB.

I agree that people are so used to fat horses that a fit one can look skinny. You see it often when people comment on race horses needing a career change. Many are blooming fit but you will see comments about how skinny or malnourished they are, from people who don’t have experience with horses that are legitimately in shape.

One thing I will say - the answer can be somewhere in the middle. I don’t agree with those posts whatsoever. I do, however, agree that chronic pain can create a certain physiological profile – and once you learn to see that profile, it can be hard to unsee. There are 5* horses I have watched jog and said wow, I’m amazed they are sound on those hoof angles – or wow, they’ve really changed shape since last year. But I would never publicly broadcast these thoughts, or profess to know what goes on in their program or that their rider is disabusing them some way - those horses get better professional care than most humans do.

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I agree with everything you said here, but I have one question - isn’t a low stifle indicative of scope in jumper??

Yup - good catch - I’ve done swapped them up. Fixed. :wink:

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Whew, I was thinking that even in my miniscule knowledge of conformation I had it all wrong!!

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I’m still flabbergasted at the volume of responses to the IG post.

I scrolled through the comments for quite a while and saw nothing but pile on and not a single “rational” post.

This is the hill people are dying on?

Shoot, we are doomed.

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Care to elaborate on the - " I do, however, agree that chronic pain can create a certain physiological profile" Cause I feel like that was at the crux of the FEI post that comments erupted on.

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I clicked on the IG link yesterday and it didn’t work and now I’ve clicked on it again from my phone and it’s also not working. Did the original instagram poster delete the post? Or now I’m wondering if this is someone I have blocked :joy:

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Sure. Let me preface with it’s my belief that the post was hullaboo and unsubstantiated, and I think TTHW et all are peddlers of the worst order that prey on well-intentioned horse people who just want what’s best for Dobbin.

Chronic pain can cause a body to change in how it is muscled or appears over time. It can cause secondary issues too – the person whose hips hurt may find that years down the road their knees and back begin to hurt too, because of how they compensated for it - causing muscle loss in some areas and inflammation in others. The horse with navicular may lose topline because they won’t move out. A horse with kissing spine will sometimes have major muscle asymmetry on the shoulders and across the spine because they find it more difficult to engage one side. Myself, with an ACL and MCL reconstruction, have noticed that my posture has shifted to the left over the years, because of months of compensating and the subsequent loss of my hamstring muscle which was used in the grafting. My butt cheeks are two different sizes now :joy: I am mobile and fit, but it is a conscious effort to do exercises that continue to build up that muscle loss and subsequent weakness of my right side. A body worker would likely be able to tell I had work done to my right side because bodies are a response to their environment, and tell a story of the participant’s engagement in that environment.

When looking at horses, their topline does tell a story. It can tell a story of how they are used, how they are bred, how they are fed, and how they use their body. I will go against the grain and say the quintessential “TBs don’t have topline” isn’t true - TBs genetically have fantastic toplines. However, many TBs raced first and come with some baggage that can hinder developing a good topline down the years.

Some horses will lose muscle or definition in specific areas because of chronic pain. The general places to look vary from horse to horse and what physical complaints they have. Sometimes you can see it in the neck - the muscle closest to their shoulder can look over-developed or, confusingly, pinched. To give you a hard and fast specific: horses with symptomatic cervical arthritis up high tend to have overdeveloped trapezius muscles with the area in the middle of their neck (example, where you give an IM shot) looking pinched. Sometimes you see muscle atrophy or asymmetry up close to the poll, when compared from side to side. Some horses lose muscling along the flank, stifle, and up by the point of hip. If you see asymmetry here it can be anything from an old healed broken pelvis, to something like chronic stifle pain. Horses with stifle injuries tend to have a more “upswept” bottom of their belly and can show muscle loss along the flank down across their stifle. Some horses will have pinched looking muscles here with a depression between where their stifle and point of buttock are.

Horses in chronic pain can also develop defensive posture; they’ll stand under themselves with their hind hooves camped past the stifle line. This can change the muscling of their hindquarter and croup, making the topline look less developed while muscling around the hamstring seems fine. Sometimes this can cause hunters bumps to appear too - the SI gets strained from this abnormal posture.

The absence of muscling (atrophy) in some areas, and the over-muscling in another, is usually a clue of chronic compensation.

And then there is how they move. They might jerk their head up when asked for a transition. Some use their neck as a blatant rudder – they may hold their neck stiffly, or not engage with lifting their shoulders. They’ll toe-stub or drag their hind end. They might have range of motion deviations, bringing one limb towards the midline abnormally, or might travel with their head crooked to the side.

All of these have to be considered at once. You can’t just look at a photo and decide that horse is suffering from chronic pain. But you can take the clues all along the body, from how they stand, where their muscling is or isn’t, and how they move, to paint a picture of how they are or aren’t using their body appropriately.

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I saw it yesterday, but today the post is gone when I clicked. So is assume it was deleted.

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This is a great point. My TB, when I can convince her to vacation (which takes all of my creativity to coax four weeks out of her) gets fat on air. Gets a scant handful of high fat high fiber twice a day so she doesn’t take the barn down, and she’s so round by the end of it I’m worried about her feet. When she’s Prelim fit, she’s on high protein feed and gets extra meals. She packs on the muscle and looks fabulous, but you can still see rib at full fitness. I wouldn’t want her ribs covered - at that level of work, she doesn’t need to be carrying extra weight just so the neighbors feel better.

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It is comforting to know there’s a general consensus. I can turn a blind eye, but also amongst the scrolling you still have to ingest once seen. It’s so tough because as a group of eventers we are already so cognizant of our internal weaknesses , how we can better the safety for our mounts, and how the sport is portrayed publicly. To then feel like, there is a large group blasting us for something that perhaps isn’t even a broad issue at all… agh.

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It’s amazing how horses’ metabolisms react to work and feed. My TB/APHA (50/50) mare needed a grazing muzzle and fairly little feed when she was eventing BN/N and doing 1st-level dressage two years ago- before the muzzle, the barn kids called her “a land whale”. This year we had to more than double her caloric intake including double her feed, losing the muzzle, and adding a fat supplement while doing 2nd/3rd level dressage (but conditioning her like we were going to go Tr/Prelim), and people joke she’s “Eventing fit, Dressage skinny”.

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The irony was not lost on me when one of these young internet body workers ( I say internet cause their business model seams to be make money on social media vs see actual clients - I feel the same way about human MDs that someone have time to make 2-3 posts and stories a day) made a post about how horse product marketing is all trickery and trying to get you to buy products. She took a special stab at anatomical tack marketing. Ironically her post ends with her trying to sell one of her online bodywork classes at $300 a pop. Her marketing to me is so wildly obvious… Convince ammys online their horses are all in chronic pain, then sell them some body work course to fix all their woes when likely the horse needs a combo of bodywork, fitness, proper training, and vet/farrier tune up. A quick fix covered up by emotions.

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There’s the joke that Morgans get fat on air, but when mine was competing 1st level dressage with me at 25, he was getting an absurd amount of grain (4 quarts of senior + 1 quart of Omegatin 4x a day). Then when he moved home with my parents for retirement, he only got a little bit of senior (maybe a quart a day total) when he wasn’t rotating through the pastures on grass. And was far fatter in retirement than he was on his 16+ quarts of grain a day :joy:

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In the case of my bodyworker friend, she is very much in earnest, but has not had a lot of experience in the world, and certainly no exposure to top level competition and its demands.

I feel like I am seeing a lot of rhetoric from young (early 20’s) equestrian wellness practitioners that are very eager to criticize and judge equine athletes in any sport as being developed incorrectly, in pain or disfunction. I think, although it may be well intentioned, it’s an incredibly dangerous narrative for horses in sport or even riding in general.

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So it sounds like either TTHW is riding a wave, or she is actually influencing online commenters. Once you read the long thread on her, you will recognize the buzz words.

Fake news spreads faster online than the truth because of the shock and novelty factor.

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It can be difficult for many horse owners to evaluate if a program from one of these self-invented practitioners is effective, or not.

Effective at what? I’ve watched ‘experts’ convince a prospective client that their horse has some condition, and it’s so lucky because the expert has a specialty treatment for it.

Did the treatment work? Did the horse ever have a problem? Nothing is obvious to a customer who knows they don’t know a lot about the subject in the first place.

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A number of comments here have advised ignoring, not responding, because “you won’t change their minds”.
Possibly not.
But on the other hand, if you/one/we allow disinformation to stand unchallenged, or uncorrected, or kindly explained otherwise, then aren’t we allowing the disinformation to become ‘truth’?
You might not change the mind of the person doing the posting, but many others are reading, and a sensible, intelligent explanation from a person who actually knows something might sink in with others.

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It is a lot easier to believe the problem is your horse rather than your riding and management choices.

Oldest story in the book.

It’s interesting how the blame game has adapted through my lifetime.

When I was younger, people were more apt to blame the horse’s nature. “He’s a mean one.” “He’s cold backed.” “She’s a witchy mare.”

Then we discovered tack and supplements. “He needs a special saddle pad.” “Your problem is your bit.” “Have you tried this supplement?”

Pharmaceuticals certainly had their moment. “Have you had his hocks done lately?”

Now bodywork seems to be the next frontier. “Have you put a BEMER on him while standing on a Theraplate, followed by a chiro session and a massage?”

While all of this stuff has its place, most of the time, we just need to ride and take care of our horses better.

(All of this is tangential to the original topic of keyboard warriors attacking a horse’s top line)

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