Which draft stallions are commonly used on TB mares to produce quiet fox hunters or mounted patrol horses? My husband desperately wants to produce his next horse from my broodmare who has produced several nice warmbloods with exceptional temperaments. I keep trying to get him to keep one of the WB babies for himself but he wants a draft cross.
Registered Irish Draught certainly spring to mind. RID x TB is a classic cross.
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Do you have any specific stallion suggestions? Looking for something that consistently produces good, solid citizens.
I don’t really, sorry. Hangon Johnny seemed to show up a lot in horses I’ve drooled over, but he apparently died in 2011. I don’t know if he has any sons standing.
If we are speaking of “true” draft breeds, I generally think the Perchx or ClydeX is better than ShireX or BelgianX, but it really depends on your type and sport.
The ID is of course a very well-known cross with TBs, but no guarantee on quietness and is not technically a draft – IDs are all over the map in terms of temperament.
As far as specific stallions, I would get into contact with @FatCatFarm – IIRC she has several Draft Xs from the same breeder, may be able to point you in the right direction.
I have no affiliation with this breeder, but the barn I train out of has several horses from them. They all do LL eventing / hunting and are quite reliable in terms of steadiness and willingness to be ridden:
http://www.virginiasporthorses.com/
Good luck! Not quite what you are looking for, I had a TBxPerchxQH that was a PMU foal that we raised, and he was just awesome. I didn’t think he was athletic enough for what I wanted to do and we sold him – but I would have another like him in a heart beat (now that I am older and less dumb!) because he was one of the most solid citizens I knew.
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The Percheron is considered to be the most athletic of the true draft ( heavy horse) breeds. There are a lot of exceptional foxhunters that are half Perch. I have a lovely half Percheron mare and a friend just had a nice TB/perch foal this year.
Our half Percheron mare.
https://www.facebook.com/251196806403/videos/449587109147868/
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My friend’s foal this year, TB mare x Percheron Stallion.
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I think a Percheron or Percheron cross is the way we will go… but need specific stallion recommendations! A 19h pulling champion isn’t what we’re looking for and that seems to be all I can find when I’m searching for Percheron stallions.
My dad had a lovely Percheron x TB hunt horse when I was growing up. Unfortunately, don’t know his breeding and it was too long ago to be useful anyway.
No personal experience but some I found quickly searching:
http://www.forresthillfarm.com/index_files/Page9.htm not sure how up to date their stallion roster is but they could be worth contacting for information or suggestions I believe their stallion Cottonwood Flame competed in UL dressage himself and had sporty offspring that did very well.
Littlehawk Farm may still have frozen left from their stallion: http://www.littlehawkfarm.com/storm.html
One thought is you could search Percheron x tb crosses for sale, I’ve seen some lovely looking ones, and see who they are by if it is listed or ask the owners if they can provide the information if it isn’t and you might find some interesting options that way.
I’ve also seen a couple of Clydesdale stallions advertised for sport breeding recently. Can try to look those up if you’re interested.
I’ve learned a lot more about drafts now that DH is into Clydesdales. He has a full clyde mare, and I understand exactly what you mean when you say you’re not looking for a pulling champion. DH’s current mare is very much a riding-type–looks almost like a 17.1 cob. His last one was more of a pulling type, and was a barrel with legs and giant feet.
I recommend perusing the draft-breed-of-choice show results. There are some riding classes (most of the divisions are in hand and driving though). The stallions that compete successfully in riding divisions would be worth considering. Also, look at the bloodlines of the winners of any gender. That might get you started at least.
Another point is that many draft breeders don’t ship/AI, so you might have trouble finding a good riding type that does or stands in your part of the country.
You might try cross posting in the Hunting forum, as it sounds like you’re breeding for a nice hilltopper/2nd flight type horse, and those people with draft crosses will hopefully chime in with breeding they’ve seen work well.
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Clyde, not Percheron, but this lady was the subject of a Chronicle profile a while back: http://www.warwickehill.com/home/4579351332
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Thanks for the tag, Beowulf. My Draft X’s are Saddlebred x Percheron, so Blood on Top, which is really how it was meant to be done. Putting the blood on the bottom, i.e., draft to TB, you’re very likely to wind up with more refinement than most want for a heavy hunter type like what the Irish favor. Still, you might still get something you are quite happy with. Some Percheron’s can be quite hot and reactive and then crossed with TB, can wind up being a handful, so bear that in mind in your stallion selection process.
I would find a good sporty Percheron stallion, or a super sweet and laid back RID - Registered Irish Draught. The good and heavy old fashion kind. If it were me, I would go RID. I did that with a TB mare I had and was very pleased with the cross. There are several around.
I really like Cappa Irish Charmer in Leavenworth Kansas. He’s not done a whole lot, but I’ve watched a lot of videos his owner has put up and he’s got a lovely disposition and she’s bred him to all kinds of mares and I think he’s improved them in his get. www.tallyhoequestriancentre.com She also has a facebook page for him.
ETA: PSSM is a real issue for some draft horses, well, quite a few breeds actually, but there’s a 62% of prevalence of it in Percheron’s so just something to be aware of. It is less common in Clydesdales than either Percherons or Belgians.
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I’ve seen some TB/Shire crosses that were quite athletic. Not as common though as the Percheron crosses for obvious reasons, but you are starting with the draft that in recent times tends to be bred more for riding which is a plus. Check out the facebook page: Shire Horse Breeders/Enthusiasts.
Quick edit: Black Mountain Shires and Sport Horses was the one I was thinking of in particular, never bought from them, but they have had some nice looking animals
I think it would be easier to buy something specific, then breed. The problem with draft/thoroughbred is sometimes you end up with a draft body on skinny thoroughbred legs. Perhaps check out Georgian Grande horses. My friend has one (friesian/saddlebred) and her horse is lovely.
I had a percheron cross and he was lovely but he jumped like a football player. No finesse. Very Clunky.
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We have a Clyde/QH X and she’s not the most gifted jumper, but she has a big heart. She’s just 15 HH, but she does what she can. She’s turned into a trusty school horse.
Our friend has a great Belgian X TB with the TB on the bottom, he showed up to 1.10M. He schooled at home much higher. He can go from the jumper ring to in front of a cart and pulling a cart, and packing a kid around over jumps. Honest as the day is long, but you don’t want to jump too high before age of 6, give the joints time close.
If I were to breed, I’d go with a Belgian or Clyde. There is an athletic Clyde stud around here, Major Tyson. Look him up!
We always bred a TB stallion to a Clyde or Shire mare with good results…I was afraid to breed the draft stallion to a TB mare for fear of a foal too big to pop out easily! Our reg. ISH stallion, Seattle Blues is/was by Touch of the Blues out of a Seattle Slew TB show hunter mare. He is awesome in every way, produced a few lovely foals, but we gelded him and stuck with the TB stallion to the heavier mares.
What about something not full draft? You could always breed to a draft cross stallion.
What about considering a Cleveland Bay? Unfortunately, the stallion I had experience with passd away quite some time ago but they are a sportier “draft” breed, cross well with Thoroughbreds, and it gives you some registration options.
A lot of the Amish buggy Percheron stallion’s produce sportier crosses. They’re bred to be a little peppier than the standard workhorse Percheron. I really liked Yoder Farm’s Duke, he was short-coupled and produced some solid fox hunters and eventers, but he passed away. He did have some offspring who are still breeding stallion’s, though, like First Acres Design and others (I’ve seen one FAD offspring and I thought it looked very nice)
https://www.facebook.com/PennwoodsPercherons/
Talk to these folks. Especially like their new stallion Eric the Gentleman.
