A question for sidesaddle people... AND AN UPDATE

[Brigit]

I didn’t get any responses over on “Off Course” so perhaps it’s better posted here.

How truly bad are the “cheap” sidesaddles? You know the hiliason, royal king and silver fox gold winner sidesaddles?

The reason I ask, a friend of mine caught the sidesaddle bug and desperately wanted to try it. We’ve chatted lots and I told her to steer clear of the “cheap, new” sidesaddles you see for sale on the internet/ebay, as everyone had told me too. She emails me the other day and says that she just couldn’t help herself, she purchased a royal king english sidesaddle.

Oh boy…

For her sake, I’m hoping it’s not as bad as what I’ve heard. She really wants to ride sidesaddle and I hope this saddle isn’t going to be totally uncomfortable/unrideable and turn her off. She says she can’t send it back if it doesn’t fit (not good) and she can likely sell it if it doesn’t work (I hope so…).

So are they really that bad? Are the brands I listed all equally bad or is there one that’s slightly better than the rest? I really really want this to work out for her but I have my doubts.

[AmandaandTuff]

I’m not a sidesaddle person, but this is what I find:

http://members.cox.net/sidesaddle/papers/ssbuytp2.pdf

http://tackytackoftheday.blogspot.com/2010/01/side-saddles.html

[Kerrysmom818]

Quite honestly, it depends on the saddle. Some of the cheapies work for some people/some horses. It all depends.

I know someone who loves her Hilason and I bought one on her recommendation. Very nicely made, but not a good fit for my horse at the time. I haven’t heard anything good about the Silver Fox brand. Not sure about the Royal King.

Fitting is really, really important and can be tricky - esp if your horse is low and wide - ask me how I know! There are lots of sidesaddle groups out there - what area are you in?

[Brigit]

Well I’m glad to hear they’re not all bad and unrideable. I really hope her’s works out for her like your friend’s did. I hadn’t heard of anybody riding in one successfully.
I’m not going to lie, when I first caught the sidesaddle bug, I was very tempted to buy a cheap one but instead saved my pennies and waited and bought a really nice old one.

[Hunter_Mom]

I am also following this thread, as I really want to eventually ride aside. I know that a nice used one is probalby out of the picture for a long time, but for my purposes, I was thinking the Hilason would be acceptable.

Another question - what kind of pad do you use with a side saddle to be correct?

[Kerrysmom818]

[QUOTE=Hunter Mom;4857656]
I am also following this thread, as I really want to eventually ride aside. I know that a nice used one is probalby out of the picture for a long time, but for my purposes, I was thinking the Hilason would be acceptable.

Another question - what kind of pad do you use with a side saddle to be correct?[/QUOTE]

The Hilason would be OK - as long as you can get one that fits! Fit is uber important with a sidesaddle.

As far as a pad goes - you can use what you would use for an astride saddle. A regular square dressage pad works well. They do make fitted sidesaddle pads too . . .

[Melyni]

The fit is important but also

take a good hard look at how well stitched on is the girth tabs and the balance strap.
The worst problem with the cheaper saddles is that they are badly constructed and trend to fall apart at the worst possible moment.

But as long as they are well made and fit you should be okay.
MW

[midkniggit]

The downside of a lot of the cheaper sidesaddles is they are built on an astride tree, not a sidesaddle tree. It means you aren’t as securely balanced, and will feel like you are constantly tipping over to the right. The girthing also may not be correct.

There’s no consistency to them. Some will be fine, many will be wretched. There are some things you can do to help improve the cheap ones, like moving the balance girth attachment or stuffing shims in between the panels and seat, but a poorly made sidesaddle is not going to be comfortable for you or the horse. I do know of two people who have been pretty happy with the Hilasons, and a couple more who hated them.

[analise]

On the subject of sidesaddle…

Do they make sidesaddles for draft horses? (my guy goes in a 36cm Duett astride).

And…is there anyone who teaches sidesaddle in the Maryland area?

[buck22]

[QUOTE=midkniggit;4858492]
The downside of a lot of the cheaper sidesaddles is they are built on an astride tree, not a sidesaddle tree. It means you aren’t as securely balanced, and will feel like you are constantly tipping over to the right. The girthing also may not be correct.

There’s no consistency to them. Some will be fine, many will be wretched. There are some things you can do to help improve the cheap ones, like moving the balance girth attachment or stuffing shims in between the panels and seat, but a poorly made sidesaddle is not going to be comfortable for you or the horse. I do know of two people who have been pretty happy with the Hilasons, and a couple more who hated them.[/QUOTE]
had to jump in, exactly exactly ^^^^ don’t do it, resist the hilasion/silver king royal fox whatever temptation, you could get lucky but chances are you’ll be sorely disappointed, or worse.

http://www.petescustomsaddles.com/info/buyingside.html

http://www.equisearch.com/horses_riding_training/tack_apparel/english/eqsschoose1959/

http://www.newrider.com/Specialisms/Side-saddle/fitting.html

From what I understand, the Elan is an entry level SS that you can count on, its made on a proper tree, has individual quality control, is safe, sturdy and balanced. Its not fancy, or the most luxurious leather, but one can learn to ride properly and expect it to hold up to use and not injure the horse in the process, they’re under $1000 new, can be found around $500 used, and come in Wide.

I’ve been eyeing one for ages myself

[AdAblurr02]

I have an Elan, got it from the source, sent in the horse template for a WIDE tree, etc etc. Fit horses OK - am not enamored of the leather quality, but it works. Well, sort of… I had to overhaul the leaping horn to shorten it and make it come out at the correct angle and curve as it was ALL wrong and I could not get my left leg to it no matter what I did! Got that all fixed, MUCH better.

However, it still didn’t sit right, I could never get my right leg to drape down the horses’ left shoulder. Finally figured out the fixed head was too much over the center of the horse - instead of being offset to the near side. Sooo, ended up tearing it down and overhauling THAT too - metal work, wood repairs (it was broken when I uncovered it) and then a complete fiberglassing of the tree afterward to stabilize the lot. NOW, it’s finally ridable.

I found that on these trees, when they spread the front to make a wider fitting tree, the fixed head just tilts over to the off side - hence lousy fit for the rider, and I do not have a heavy thigh. Obviously, the makers have never seen a horse. The seller (who is the importer) works her butt off to get these things done right, and for the most part, they are a good entry level saddle. Mine just needed - well, a lot of work to be rideable. I even wrote a two part article on the repairs - lots of pics too. I should put it up on my website…

I figure that a lot of the used middle eastern imports are on ebay for good reason. I still can’t afford a good old English sidesaddle, though. Maybe after I win the lottery!

[helent623]

I was wondering the same thing when I got in to side saddle riding. And then I came to the horribly mistaken conclusion that I could work with a cheapie to make it rideable, since I was on a tight budget.

No. Don’t buy a cheapie. I went through the hassle of ordering and returning at least 3 cheap-o side saddles (and lost quite a bit on shipping even though I was lucky enough to finagle refunds out of the companies) before I came to my senses and bought an old name in workable condition for under $1000.
ps I highly recommend Sue Tobin of Side Saddle Heaven- She is lovely to deal with.

If you think you can deal with a cheapie and ‘make it work’, just think about all the money you’ll spend on shipping saddles around, getting custom pads and shims, doing major reconstruction work, or injuring yourself or your horse. Do yourself a favor and buy an Elan or an old name.

It will be cheaper in the long run anyways because you’ll have less problems with it. After feeling the leather, stitching and construction on the cheapies, I have far more faith in my circa 1930 ss not to have the tree shatter or billets fall off.

pps- Hi analise! <waves>

[horsepix76]

I too am a sidesaddle rider and I think you absolutely get what you pay for with a sidesaddle. The fit for horse and rider is SO important. All you need to do to realize the difference in a cheapie and a old, used SS is to look at pictures of them. If you can find a new saddle that looks like an OLD good brand, you might have something to work with.

Good luck and save your pennies. It will be worth it in the long run!

PS - Regarding fitting a draft horse, good luck with that. The older SS (50-70 year old ones) were created to fit thinner, TB or saddle-type horses. Wide horses are not something that necessarily was ridden aside back then and so it is very difficult to find one that will fit a draft horse (or even a wide QH or WB these days). You may be in for a custom saddle adventure!

[everyequine]

Hey Draft & DC people!

The Elan’s now come in super XX-Wide!

I too have had a few of these, and had to tweak the leaping head. I added a queen to the hunting head, and it is much more comfortable. (I found it was too far to the left for me too.) I had 3 saddles for 3 different horses. It is a good useful saddle. I still have one that I use. I also have a Mayhew, and am spoiled by it, but I can ride the Elan comfortably on the horse it was bought for.
Other than the few adjustments I made it is ready to ride right out of the box. I didn’t tear down the tree just had my husband bend the leaping head for me… the leather part slips off and exposes the metal. He did it carefully.
Contact Marti, www.hundredoaksinc.com she will gladly help you, and she has many old English makes available too.
American Lady Aside http://www.americanladyaside.com/ALA1.html also consigns saddles, and has some nice ones available.
http://americansidesaddleassociation.org/

[Brigit]

What a disaster…

Well my friend got her saddle the other day and I hate to say it but it sounds scary. I haven’t seen it in person but from the pictures she sent me and the questions she was asking, it sounds like the makers had absolutely NO CLUE what they were doing.
I’ll list the issues so this is easy to read.

1. The seat looks like a flattened english saddle, really narrow near the front where your right thigh should rest. Actually the whole thing really DOES look just like a flattened english saddle with pomels stuck onto it.

2. The pommels look very oddly placed, I’m not sure but I have a feeling it would make a person twist sideways and be difficult to sit squarely with their hips.

3. The balance straps scare me. First off there is a strap on both the offside and the nearside for a balance strap, kind of like what a back cinch on a western saddle would be like. I have a feeling that’s what the makers thought it was supposed to be like. Could you imagine the wreck that could cause if someone did it up like that and it slid back??? Eeek!
   The saddle does NOT have a point strap to attach the balance girth to underneath the flap on the nearside. I had to explain to her that the point strap should be attached to the tree so just “getting on put on” might be costly.

4. It was supposed to come with a balance girth but it didn’t, so she asks me where she can get one and then asks if I thought it would be ok to ride in it without. I said I thought it was a bad bad idea.

5. The stirrup bar does not have a safety release mechanism.

6. The seat looks EXTREMELY slippery and small.

I guess I’m going to have to stick with my original thought, please to those of you that desperately want to try riding sidesaddle, save your money and buy a GOOD saddle. They do exist out there for under $1000. Ask yourself how much you paid for your good english or western saddle, I would be it would likely be more than that for a lot of people. You wouldn’t buy a junky astride saddle for your horse, so don’t buy a junky sidesaddle.

If we sit down and think of what my friend is going to have to pay now to get this saddle rideable, I bet the difference won’t be that much.

lets say she paid $250 for the saddle, plus oh probably $100 shipping? She’s going to need to buy a balance girth - $100, and hopefully a safety stirrup - $100, maybe a stirrup leather $40 (for a cheap pair), and then she’ll likely have to pay at least $200 to get a point strap put on. So now we’re at $790. I think the cheap saddles are really one of those “it seemed like a good idea at the time” type things.

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU! To the experienced sidesaddle people out there that steered me in the right direction when I got into riding sidesaddle a year ago. I am so glad I waited and bought a nice old name saddle.

[Brigit]

Oh and one other thing I wanted to mention. Riding sidesaddle is a terrible addiction and it’s expensive! It all starts with the saddle…then you’ll want the accessories and the outfits and before you know it you’ll have a closet full of stuff.

[analise]

[QUOTE=helent623;4859150]
I

pps- Hi analise! <waves>[/QUOTE]

Hi! (I seriously would love to take up riding sidesaddle and do it with Kieran. :D)

@horsepix76

PS - Regarding fitting a draft horse, good luck with that. The older SS (50-70 year old ones) were created to fit thinner, TB or saddle-type horses. Wide horses are not something that necessarily was ridden aside back then and so it is very difficult to find one that will fit a draft horse (or even a wide QH or WB these days). You may be in for a custom saddle adventure!

Oh wonderful! I better save up my pennies.

[danceronice]

I came across Sidesaddleheaven.com and was going to ask on here if they’r good to work with!

Price comparison is probably a bad thing (I payed $247 including shipping for a Crosby PDN on eBay.) I just have such a hard time being willing to pay more for the saddle than the horse! Good to hear most older ones were made for TBs (he’s at MOST a narrowish medium–not a shark-fin, but not a big broad back!) Though how much does that hold true for Western side-saddles? I must admit those look horribly tempting, especially for a horse whose ambition under saddle appears to be “Go slow. Jog is good. Walk is better.”

[JumpWithPanache]

Y’all are way too enabling. I’ve been desperately wanting to try side-saddle riding and have considered a cheapie as a way to try it to see if I like it. Sounds like I won’t get a decent idea of whether side-saddle is fun (for me) without a well-fitted saddle. Problem is, there aren’t any side-saddle people around here so I’d have to fit and learn on my own. So the question is this: If I save up to buy a mid-priced used saddle, roughly $1000-1500, will the saddle hold its value if I decide I don’t want to stick with it? Or of course, I decide I love it and want a different saddle, especially one reinforced for jumping… those are more expensive, right?

I’m thinking the “Wii Jar for Extra Change” might have to become the “Side-Saddle Jar”. :yes:

[Brigit]

True enough, good point on the price comparison. I guess I meant if you were looking to purchase a new english or western astride saddle you’d likely pay more for that. I too got my english saddle for a steal!

Western sidesaddles are built completely different than english sidesaddles. The western saddles are actually built on western bars, so from what I’ve heard, they fit similarly to an astride western saddle. I think the western ones tend to give a much more secure fit on the “quarter horse” shape than an english type sidesaddle would.
I just purchased a western sidesaddle but it won’t be here until the end of May or June sometime so when it comes, I’ll post pics and let you know how it fits!