A Resale Project- What would you do?

[chestnuthunter]

Ok, so there’s this horse near me that I think could make an AWESOME resale project that has just dropped significantly in price. The owners have now been paying his board (in addition to their other 2 horses) for a few months, and are just getting tired of it. I don’t want to post his direct ad because the horse world is small and I guarantee someone will probably know him!

I went and tried him a few months ago, and there were a lot of things I liked about him. He is a 6 year-old ottb with amazing jumping ability- comfortably showing 4"0’. No soundness issues (although I do worry about how early those jumps were introduced and how hard he was pushed, so I’d definitely get a vet check!), short, nice conformation, sweet personality.

However, he has no understanding of basic flatwork. He is a point, squeeze, and jump kind of horse. He can fly around the jump course, but is not really “broke” per say. No bending, no suppleness in the neck and body, no collection, etc. I already know this horse can soar over every single fence, but if I could work on and improve his flatwork I think he could go in the hunters one day as well as the jumpers.

He went straight off the track to the jump course, and I don’t think the basics of flatwork (other than squeeze means go and rein means stop) were ever introduced. That was the turn-off, and why I chose not to pursue the horse. However, with the price dropped, I think that maybe this horse would be a good option.

A resale is not absolutely necessary, but would be nice. A horse that can jump those heights and is sound is easily marketable anyway. I am a very slow, soft, quiet rider that tends to slow horses WAY down.

COTHers, what would you do in this situation? I don’t think this horse is going anywhere immediately, so there’s no rush!

[candysgirl]

If the price is right, you have the skill to put the training on him and the means to keep him if things don’t go as planned, go for it.

[findeight]

Not quite enough information foir meaningful advice.

What does his show record look like? Which division?

And what does his tatoo say about who he is and how old??? Cothers can look up a tattoo or you can call the JC.

Are your parents on board with a good PPE (6-800) and keeping a second horse if he does not work out?

Do you have a knowledgeable friend or trainer for a neutral second opinion?

Final thought, if he is sound and competiting at 4’? Current owners should easily sell him for an appropriate price. Is there a healthy market for resales in your area?

[Nickelodian]

What do you see as his future market? Why hasn’t he sold previously?

[chestnuthunter]

[QUOTE=findeight;7446986]
Not quite enough information foir meaningful advice.

What does his show record look like? Which division?

And what does his tatoo say about who he is and how old??? Cothers can look up a tattoo or you can call the JC.

Are your parents on board with a good PPE (6-800) and keeping a second horse if he does not work out?

Do you have a knowledgeable friend or trainer for a neutral second opinion?

Final thought, if he is sound and competiting at 4’? Current owners should easily sell him for an appropriate price. Is there a healthy market for resales in your area?[/QUOTE]

He’s got a nice show record. He does the Alabama Hunter Jumper Association Shows, which aren’t rated, but he wins almost every jumper class, and he has placed in the hunters a time or two.

I looked him up in the JC Registry; he wasn’t raced much at all, and he has a great pedigree. It confirms he is 6.

My parents would be fine with a PPE and keeping him if we decided not to resale. I’m planning on attending Auburn and boarding at H&G horse quarters next year, so I wouldn’t mind taking this horse with me to do the rated stuff there.

I do have a very knowledgable trainer and several friends for a second opinion. I have sent her this horse’s ad and am waiting on a reply. My parents are both very knowledgable about the hunter/jumper world and both like her, but not for her previous price.

He’s only been on the market for a couple of months, and the price to begin with was pretty fair- just not the right one for me considering his flatwork. I know he’s a jumper, but I expect all of my horses to behave and go around softly and nicely. The market for resale is pretty healthy, and considering we’re only a few hours from Ocala and Conyers, I think I could easily get him off my hands if the need arose.

[chestnuthunter]

[QUOTE=Nickelodian;7446989]
What do you see as his future market? Why hasn’t he sold previously?[/QUOTE]

His owner was riding and showing him, but she has moved up in height (to 4’6, 4’9) and wanted a bigger, flashier horse, which she has just purchased.

I see him being marketed as a beginner-safe (because he truly is a point and go, jump whatever you head towards) hunter and jumper that would be competitive in shows.

[findeight]

What Jumper division has he shown in and who rode him? There is a market for a Ch/Ad or Junior Jumper, not so much Pro ridden, especially a bad Pro.

Dont get your heart set yet, still questions that need to be answered with soundness and whether you’ll have the skills to untrain every bad habit and retrain filling in all those holes back up to 4’. Its far more difficult then starting a Greenie and those bad habits always can come back to haunt at the worst times.

Got some video?

[Jumper_girl221]

What height has he shown as well? If he’s been successful at the lower heights, that’s more of a minus to me then no show experience…since usually winning at the lower levels indicates turn and burn, and that is some HARD habits to break.

I’d also get a very thorough vetting including a drug screen, since the fact he’s not shown rated, and hasn’t sold, makes me wonder about soundness.

It could be awesome, and you might have a really nice diamond in the rough, I’ve just seen WAY to many horses whose minds are completely blown from being rushed too soon off the track, and its REALLY hard to break those LL jumper habits, so just be careful

[chestnuthunter]

He was ridden by a junior; a 16 year-old girl rode, trained, and showed him.

There are a bunch of questions, and absolutely nothing is firm. This is mostly me meandering around the internet stalking horse ads.

[chestnuthunter]

[QUOTE=Jumper_girl221;7447052]
What height has he shown as well? If he’s been successful at the lower heights, that’s more of a minus to me then no show experience…since usually winning at the lower levels indicates turn and burn, and that is some HARD habits to break.

I’d also get a very thorough vetting including a drug screen, since the fact he’s not shown rated, and hasn’t sold, makes me wonder about soundness.

It could be awesome, and you might have a really nice diamond in the rough, I’ve just seen WAY to many horses whose minds are completely blown from being rushed too soon off the track, and its REALLY hard to break those LL jumper habits, so just be careful :)[/QUOTE]

He has been shown 3"6 and 4"0. I’m sure he’s been shown at the lower heights as well in past years. From his video, he can be quite “turn and burn.” I’m not sure if that’s something that could be fixed or not.

The reason he hasn’t been shown rated is primarily because we are so far away from the rated stuff- seriously. We’re in the Sahara and rated shows are water. Which would also be a reason why he hasn’t sold.

I did ride him, and it didn’t seem like he had a blown mind (though I’ve seen many that way) but was trying to do his best and what he had been taught. This horse seems to have a lot of heart.

I will absolutely be very, very cautious! I will most likely not go through with purchase, but I’m just checking around

[adelmo95]

I will reiterate what others have said about retraining being tougher than training. I can tell you having started a bunch from scratch and having retrained a few that it is WAY yougher to retrain than to train. My personal experience has been that an OTTB that has been rushed into the jumper ring without proper retraining first has some very tough habits to break. I catch rode a thoroughbred who went very similar to the clip that you showed. He could be extremely successful up to 1.10 and had the scope to jump higher just not the rideability. He was again an exceptionally honest horse over fences, and had the scope to get himself out of trouble when he would take over and end up in the wrong spot. He was NOT an easy sell because his ideal height to show at was 1.10m and most kids looking for a horse to move up to that height on didn’t have the skill to ride him. I put a lot of time into retraining and for the most part could get him going around softly, and make him look like a reasonably easy ride however when a less experienced rider got on all of the old habits came back.

This is a very different story from the ones I started from scratch with, most of them were a very simple ride that I had no problems putting a beginner on. Honestly if you want a resale project keep your eye out for a young horse with potential, you will have a lot more fun with it and although you will still experience setbacks along the way I am guessing you will have a lot more fun with it.

If you want something that you can immediately take out and show and are willing to deal with the lack of basic training and the fact that the horse’s way of going might not change as dramatically as you expect then he might be an option.

[Nickelodian]

Cute horse, not a hunter. Probably a high ch/ad horse or Low Jr/Am, either way if it’s reasonably priced and you have a market in your area for that type of horse then certainly a reasonable resale. That comes with understanding all of the risks that horses aren’t really resale prospects. They are money pits that are very risky that you might be able to sell if you get lucky.

[BostonHJ]

OP, I say this in the nicest possible way, but I don’t know if a resale project is what you need in your riding career right now. It is so, so easy to look at horses online and think “that horse is priced so low, I could totally move it for more.” We all do it, even if our next thought is “actually, no I couldn’t.”

You’ve posted videos of you riding and while perfectly competent for the level you are showing at, I think you would be grossly overhorsed with this one. He looks spicy! As others have said, it could have some value in the high CH/AA or low JR/AO ring, but you are not in a position to get it miles there. If you are looking to move up to the CH/AA jumpers, a horse that knows it’s job well would be a much better fit than one that could use some re-schooling. If you are hoping to do a resale project, you would be better served finding something that is super duper quiet and could eventually pack someone around the 3’ ring. There are infinitely more people that need a first horse than people that want a hot jumper.

[Stoney447]

[QUOTE=chestnuthunter;7447058]
He was ridden by a junior; a 16 year-old girl rode, trained, and showed him.

There are a bunch of questions, and absolutely nothing is firm. This is mostly me meandering around the internet stalking horse ads.

I am a pretty advanced flat rider (novice over fences), but retraining really can be a nightmare. Here’s a little snippet of video:
(removed link)

You can see the rushing, head tossing, etc. that would be issues.[/QUOTE]

Pretty positive the horse in that video is a mare, and the show record seems to be 1.0 meter and below. Not to say that she cannot go higher though…

Also, I would not say that the price seems to place her in a great resale range.

[adelmo95]

I found the ad that Stoney 447 was talking about. At that size, that price, and that level of showing I wouldn’t say it is a resale project.

[vxf111]

I thought there were no jumper shows (or ones you could afford) in your area? A resale project needs miles and shows… doesn’t sound like you’re in an ideal situation to do that.

[bugsynskeeter]

Based on your previous posts, you will be way over-horsed with this one.

And I thought Conyers was too expensive to show at last time I suggested it?

[french_fry]

One of the hardest things in the world is realistically assessing your own abilities.

Having read previous posts and seen video of your riding, I say this as gently as possible, but…this horse will very likely fall well outside of your current riding (not to mention training) abilities.

Green(ish) on green(ish) can and does work if the following criteria are satisfied: 1. the rider has good basics 2. the horse has good basics 3. there is an instructor who is very skilled at bringing along both horses and riders very involved (as in, multiple lessons a week and often training rides) 4. horse has a good mind.

What we have here is a quiet, competent rider with good basics and a horse who may or may not be an utter disaster when it comes to basics and who may or may not be showing well above his/her current skill level. Undoing bad habits and filling gaps in training is exponentially harder than bringing along a green horse.

If you are truly looking for a retraining project and you are under nearly constant supervision by a great trainer I would recommend finding something with less baggage. The difference is like night and day.

[alibi_18]

[QUOTE=chestnuthunter;7447067]
He has been shown 3"6 and 4"0. I’m sure he’s been shown at the lower heights as well in past years.[/QUOTE]

You have the proof right there, the video you posted shows fences lower than 1m.

ETA : From the ad, the horse has been shown from 0.80 to 1m05.

From his video, he can be quite “turn and burn.” I’m not sure if that’s something that could be fixed or not.

Why would you fix that in a jumper? Actually, from that video, he looks exactly what I would expect for a low jumper.

I know he’s a jumper, but I expect all of my horses to behave and go around softly and nicely.

I am a very slow, soft, quiet rider that tends to slow horses WAY down.

…

You currently ride at the lowest jumping levels. Slowing way down a jumper is a not recommended, especially if one wants to win anything.

Being soft and quiet, yes but only in order to increase the precision and thus, the speed.

comfortably showing 4"0’ … but is not really “broke” per say. No bending, no suppleness in the neck and body, no collection, etc.

… I highly doubt so or maybe your riding skills aren’t developped enough to ride such an advanced horse?

As for the ‘‘resale’’ project, why do you think you’d be more successfull than this Junior to make a profit on this horse?

[hj0519]

I’m going to agree that this probably isn’t the right resale project for you. You consider yourself a novice hunter/jumper rider and, I believe (correct me if I’m wrong), currently show your horse in 2’3-2’6 classes and don’t have a desire to go higher than 3’ (per one of your other threads). If all that is true, I don’t think a 3’6-4’ jumper is really the right horse for you.

I also agree with alibi_18 last question for you - ask yourself why you think you’re going to be more successful with this resale project than his current rider, who sounds to be a more experienced jumper than you.