sorry I got the age wrong Roberta , thanks for the correction
the OP , being a newbie, likely does not know the YR distinction just as she probably does not know that she can contact the USEF with her questions ( well she does now)
[QUOTE=SaddleFitterVA;8449056]
My reason for not wanting to compete against the pros is that the pro classes are usually Wed thru Fri, when I am at WORK.
Lack of unlimited vacation time…not that I am worried that someone will beat me.
I agree that perhaps it is time to lose the amateur-professional categories, but a qualifications based entry would help, instead of income, if the rider has won over “X” times, they no longer can enter the beginner classes, and if they need young horse classes to level the “green horse” playing field, those are there.[/QUOTE]
Number of wins wouldn’t be fair in areas that have small shows, or small divisions. I am often the only entry in my Intermediaire I classes, so after X many classes of being the only entry, I would have to turn pro?
[QUOTE=meupatdoes;8449051]
It was ‘taken away’ by other amateurs who don’t want to compete with other amateurs who ride well enough to get catch rides, since it is unfair that someone for whatever reason might ride better than them. They don’t want to compete against the likes of you for the same reason you don’t want to compete against pros.
Personally I think they should just do away with amateur status altogether, ala Europe. Everyone can go do the 2’6" lows, and the ones who want to swim in the big pond can do the first years, etc. Very simple rule. (And I say this as someone who rode on a pro card while maintaining full time non horse related employment, so I don’t follow why the whole work thing makes amateur status super important.)[/QUOTE]
Yep. I object to anyone trying to pretend the new AA CDI division has ANYTHING to do with adult amateurs in this country. However, I believe deciding who is eligible by ranking (or lack thereof) is a pretty fair way of doing it.
I would say qualify by scores, not placings, in dressage. Changing for each level, and once upgraded at one level all below are also in that category. For h/j I would think qualifications by points as I think is done for AQHA novice… So it matters how many horses are in the class as well as your place. If you place 5 of 5, it shouldn’t move you up, but if you place 6 of 30, you should get there faster…
Huh? In DRESSAGE?
[QUOTE=Janet;8449547]
Huh? In DRESSAGE?[/QUOTE]
I was responding to the poster who was discussing the H/J entry fee rule change upthread.
There is never going to be a “fair” line between amateur and pro. For some, “amateur” means trying to support 4 kids and a 1/2 lease horse on a modest salary while trying to find a couple hours to actually ride between work and family duties. While another “amateur” could be independently wealthy, with no need to work, spends all day at a barn full of fancy horses, and no pressure to have to ride client horse that don’t contribute to her own goals.
Likewise some “pros” have been doing upper level dressage for many years with a barn full of dressage horses. Whereas other “pros” are barely starting their career and spend their day teaching posting diagonals to beginners, or fixing problem trail horses, in order to try to get one hour on their own dressage horse.
There is just no definition that is going to make it fair, because the world isn’t fair.
If you are receiving any type of compensation, you should be a pro. That’s really what it comes down to.
The rules are convoluted because people are always trying to find ways to go around them, so they have to keep adding more rules.
[QUOTE=exploding pony;8450829]
If you are receiving any type of compensation, you should be a pro. That’s really what it comes down to.
The rules are convoluted because people are always trying to find ways to go around them, so they have to keep adding more rules.[/QUOTE]
Sad to say, this is true. I have seen many people try to work their way around it. Just in this region, there are quite a few who try to say they are just getting a “gift” for competing others’ horses. Or they just don’t “report” the fees they get.
OTOH, there are plenty of entry level trainers teaching up-down lessons and competing in the same class as the big name pros.
Agree with rjr, there is no way to make it “fair”, life isn’t fair. I haul out for a lesson once or twice a month if I’m lucky. I ride a cross breed horse I bred, raised and basically trained myself. I am up against someone in full training on a $100k schoolmaster, or a $75k fancy young horse imported from Germany - it ain’t fair, but that is life.
And someone else will point out - if I think I am at a disadvantage, they are on a QH and take lessons with that up-down trainer and are at their first rated show!
There is no way to equalize competition.
All very true!
I’m out there doing much the same lol. Though I have a QH and a fancy wb, so I’m on both sides of the equation often enough 
[QUOTE=exploding pony;8450829]
If you are receiving any type of compensation, you should be a pro. That’s really what it comes down to.
The rules are convoluted because people are always trying to find ways to go around them, so they have to keep adding more rules.[/QUOTE]
Exactly. And yeah, I DO have a problem when someone is getting free board for working horses for their trainer, or getting free training for their horse for schooling horses for their trainer. If you’re good enough to receive compensation, GTFO of the ammy ranks. It sucks to be super careful about what you’re doing so you don’t cross any lines and still compete against people who don’t care.
[QUOTE=MyssMyst;8451257]
Exactly. And yeah, I DO have a problem when someone is getting free board for working horses for their trainer, or getting free training for their horse for schooling horses for their trainer. If you’re good enough to receive compensation, GTFO of the ammy ranks. It sucks to be super careful about what you’re doing so you don’t cross any lines and still compete against people who don’t care.[/QUOTE]
I believe free board in exchange for working horses and free training for schooling horses both would make one ineligible for AA status?
[QUOTE=yaya;8449395]
Number of wins wouldn’t be fair in areas that have small shows, or small divisions. I am often the only entry in my Intermediaire I classes, so after X many classes of being the only entry, I would have to turn pro?[/QUOTE]
They would have to run it similar to a breed show where a point is assigned for every X number of horses you beat. That way if you are the only entry, you are not penalized for “winning”.
[QUOTE=dudleyc;8451339]
I believe free board in exchange for working horses and free training for schooling horses both would make one ineligible for AA status?[/QUOTE]
It does. But good luck protesting it. You end up with a lot of problems on the back end of that, too.
[QUOTE=Janet;8448649]
Yes . Rules changed a couple of years ago.[/QUOTE]
I’m not sure how this could be enforced. The rider could pay the fees, and the owner could reimburse in cash. Or the owner could pay the fees and say the rider had reimbursed them.
[QUOTE=Scribbler;8452786]
I’m not sure how this could be enforced. The rider could pay the fees, and the owner could reimburse in cash. Or the owner could pay the fees and say the rider had reimbursed them.[/QUOTE]
That is how it is done. It is such a stupid rule IMO as it is impossible to enforce.
[QUOTE=Scribbler;8452786]
I’m not sure how this could be enforced. The rider could pay the fees, and the owner could reimburse in cash. Or the owner could pay the fees and say the rider had reimbursed them.[/QUOTE]
They would at the very least have to require that reimbursement by tse rider be done by check or wire transfer, something directly traceable.
Cue everyone and their mother suddenly “not having checks” and the three people who really do for whatever reason bank without checks insisting the rule be written to accommodate their convenience.
And that does nothing to stop the owner re-reimbursing the rider.
Another reason amateur status should be done away with, or at the very least be points based.
Just a reminder that the whole rule about riders having to pay the entries ONLY applies to Hunter/Jumper classes restricted to Amateurs.
It does NOT apply to dressage.
