Let’s say you have two AA riders, one advanced and one beginner. If the beginner rider wants the advanced rider to ride and show her green horse. - Can the owner/beginner, pay the show fees? How about pay for lessons and clinics?
In Dressage (not in Hunter/Jumper) the owner can pay the show fees.
If you really want to be sure, read the rulebook, and if you still have questions, call USEF. People here may or may not have the answers.
[QUOTE=dressagegirl123;8447633]
If you really want to be sure, read the rulebook, and if you still have questions, call USEF. People here may or may not have the answers.[/QUOTE]
While I agree with your advice, the fact is that Janet is one of the few here you can trust to have the answers.
Thanks!
And you notice I only answered half the question because I wasn’t 100% sure on the other half.
USEF has a “hotline” for Amateur status questions, so you should ask them.
THANKS JANET
[QUOTE=Janet;8447314]
In Dressage (not in Hunter/Jumper) the owner can pay the show fees.[/QUOTE]
When I rode in the Hunter/Jumpers, the owners were allowed to pay for the show fees but the rider could not be compensated for their riding. As long as the rider was not earning revenue it did not violate the Amateur status.
IE, you could borrow a ride from another person who had a horse for you to ride.
Maybe things have changed in the past several years.
how old is the advanced rider?
[QUOTE=Flashymover;8448083]
When I rode in the Hunter/Jumpers, the owners were allowed to pay for the show fees but the rider could not be compensated for their riding. As long as the rider was not earning revenue it did not violate the Amateur status.
IE, you could borrow a ride from another person who had a horse for you to ride.
Maybe things have changed in the past several years.[/QUOTE]
Yes . Rules changed a couple of years ago.
GR 1306.3.k. Entries for non-under saddle classes in amateur sections at hunter, jumper or hunter/jumper competitions, must be paid either (i) directly to the competition by the Amateur or by the Amateur’s family or (ii) by someone whom the Amateur or the Amateur’s family reimburses within 90 days of the last day of the competition for which entries were paid.
[QUOTE=hoopoe;8448588]
how old is the advanced rider?[/QUOTE]
the advanced rider is also vintage - so over 50
So what difference does that make?
[QUOTE=dudleyc;8448651]
the advanced rider is also vintage - so over 50[/QUOTE]
I have not shown HJ in a few years and had missed that rule change on owner no longer being able to pay entries for an amateur riding a horse the rider does not own.
The rule-makers really, REALLY want to make sure that only super-wealthy need apply…for “amateur” classes that is.
As an amateur, with a full time job with commute, who owns my own little barn, in Virginia, the land of pros ride mid-week, it is super important to keep amateur status, because of that whole work thing. In the rare instance when someone would pay my entries to show, it was really nice…because I cannot afford to show very often, but now, even that little “reward” for riding well enough to have someone want you to ride their horse, uncompensated, is taken away.
Seriously USEF? When will these ridiculous amateur rules be replaced with less convoluted rules.
What should be the bright line between amateur and pro?
If it’s something like majority of income made from training horses, you’d still have the wealthy being able to say most of their income is from investments (for example) and being able to ride as an amateur even if every Tom, Dick and Harry is paying them to ride their horses.
[QUOTE=SaddleFitterVA;8449040]
I have not shown HJ in a few years and had missed that rule change on owner no longer being able to pay entries for an amateur riding a horse the rider does not own.
The rule-makers really, REALLY want to make sure that only super-wealthy need apply…for “amateur” classes that is.
As an amateur, with a full time job with commute, who owns my own little barn, in Virginia, the land of pros ride mid-week, it is super important to keep amateur status, because of that whole work thing. In the rare instance when someone would pay my entries to show, it was really nice…because I cannot afford to show very often, but now, even that little “reward” for riding well enough to have someone want you to ride their horse, uncompensated, is taken away.
Seriously USEF? When will these ridiculous amateur rules be replaced with less convoluted rules.[/QUOTE]
It was ‘taken away’ by other amateurs who don’t want to compete with other amateurs who ride well enough to get catch rides, since it is unfair that someone for whatever reason might ride better than them. They don’t want to compete against the likes of you for the same reason you don’t want to compete against pros.
Personally I think they should just do away with amateur status altogether, ala Europe. Everyone can go do the 2’6" lows, and the ones who want to swim in the big pond can do the first years, etc. Very simple rule. (And I say this as someone who rode on a pro card while maintaining full time non horse related employment, so I don’t follow why the whole work thing makes amateur status super important.)
[QUOTE=meupatdoes;8449051]
It was ‘taken away’ by other amateurs who don’t want to compete with other amateurs who ride well enough to get catch rides, since it is unfair that someone for whatever reason might ride better than them. They don’t want to compete against the likes of you for the same reason you don’t want to compete against pros.
Personally I think they should just do away with amateur status altogether, ala Europe. Everyone can go do the 2’6" lows, and the ones who want to swim in the big pond can do the first years, etc. Very simple rule. (And I say this as someone who rode on a pro card while maintaining full time non horse related employment.)[/QUOTE]
My reason for not wanting to compete against the pros is that the pro classes are usually Wed thru Fri, when I am at WORK.
Lack of unlimited vacation time…not that I am worried that someone will beat me.
I agree that perhaps it is time to lose the amateur-professional categories, but a qualifications based entry would help, instead of income, if the rider has won over “X” times, they no longer can enter the beginner classes, and if they need young horse classes to level the “green horse” playing field, those are there.
[QUOTE=yaya;8449044]
What should be the bright line between amateur and pro?
If it’s something like majority of income made from training horses, you’d still have the wealthy being able to say most of their income is from investments (for example) and being able to ride as an amateur even if every Tom, Dick and Harry is paying them to ride their horses.[/QUOTE]
If you have that much money you don’t want to ride other people’s crap they have to pay you to ride. Trust me.
You don’t see Reed Kessler starting a training business, do you?
[QUOTE=SaddleFitterVA;8449056]
My reason for not wanting to compete against the pros is that the pro classes are usually Wed thru Fri, when I am at WORK.
Lack of unlimited vacation time…not that I am worried that someone will beat me.
I agree that perhaps it is time to lose the amateur-professional categories, but a qualifications based entry would help, instead of income, if the rider has won over “X” times, they no longer can enter the beginner classes, and if they need young horse classes to level the “green horse” playing field, those are there.[/QUOTE]
Oh ok, I see what you’re saying now.
That said, many shows have started running the adult amateurs on Fridays, and some even Thurs Fri.
Or they do that thing where two classes in a division are one day and the other two are the next. The kids go on the weekends.
That was actually one of the reasons I stopped clinging to my amateur card, since I would have to ride during the week anyway.
My hope is that if they abolish the rule and stop having 70 different classes over the same 2’6 jumps, perhaps to show on a Saturday again.
Or, omg, one day C shows.
Remember those?
[QUOTE=AZ TD;8448947]
So what difference does that make?[/QUOTE]
riders in dressage, 18 - 25 are Young Riders and there is no distinction between “ammy” and Pro, they are YR so the question would be mooot
Hate to be picky, but in Dressage, a competitor is a Young Rider from the year in which they turn 16 until the year in which they turn 22 (so 16 - 21). They are Junior from the year in which they turn 14 until the year in which they turn 19 (so 14 - 18).
Under 25 classes currently have no divisions - i.e., Open, AA or Jr/YR but I suppose they technically can if show management wants to designate it as such.
Yes I know, but the original poster said they were two AA’s. One cannot be an AA and a Young Rider or Junior.
