About arab crosses and the head fling

[eternalbeginner]

I own a German Riding Pony, who comes from a lot of arab blloodlines: Florestan II Aa on the father side plus Welsh ponies on the mother side.

He is usually well behaved under saddle, perhaps somewhat spooky but manageable if worked consistently.

But almost every ride, at the beginning of trot work, he tosses his head upwards and sideways forcefully once or twice. It is not a resistance, because immediately he proceeds to keep trotting on the bit as he was before. It looks kind of a stroke, suddenly and unexpected, for a fraction of a second and then he proceeds as nothing was the matter, without any further intervention of the rider. It is not dangerous for the rider but rather uncomfortable.

It doesn’t look like head tossing, because he does it only once or twice at the beginning of trot. Never at the walk or at the canter, or at the end of trot work.

Have you ever heard of something like this? I may have a video done next week but I am anxious to find an answer for thisl

[CHT]

My gelding used to do this. Only once per ride at the beginning. Not every ride though. He ended up being neurological. It was actually a bit dangerous as he lost his balance doing the head toss once and pinned my leg into the wall.

[Halt_Near_X]

I think you would have more luck if you took the Arab cross bit out and just focused on the head fling. That doesn’t sound like any sort of breed characteristic or behavior that I’ve ever heard of, much less seen (not that I am an expert on the breed, but I have owned a couple crosses and ridden or known my fair share of purebreds or crosses).

I’d also be looking for something physical.

Does he do it on the lunge without a rider? On the lunge with a rider who is not holding the reins? Riding normally with longer or shorter reins than usual? If you take a long break and then go back to work does he do it? Does he do it if you canter first and then trot? Does he do it when he’s out in the pasture, e.g. when first led out and he goes trotting off to find his friends?

[Bem55]

I have one (Arab x) who does the head toss, however he only does it in the paddock, never under saddle. He only does it in the paddock when he is excited or playing and over dinner - either because he’s excited (worlds biggest pig) or because he’s upset as his slave is too slow and he is starving!

[JB]

How long have you had him, and has he always done this? How old is he, and how regularly have his teeth been done since you’ve had him?

It may have started as a reaction to discomfort (mental or physical) and is now habit.

Has a professional ever been on him to see if they can determine the cause?

Does he do this high enough that a properly adjusted standing martingale would engage? I don’t mean to imply “just strap more stuff on him to remove the symptom”, but it could be a useful diagnostic. If a SM can be safely adjusted to engage him when he does this, AND it’s just a habit, he may quickly stop. He may stop even if it’s a reaction to something real, but then he may also start acting out in another way, and that would be a big clue as well.

[eternalbeginner]

I bought him one year ago but I’v known him for some years. This pony was bought from Germany for a girl, but the pony was too strong for her, so he remained at the school. He had been doing dressage in Germany but they put him to jump. He does jump but does not like it.

He’s kind of hyper reactive, I mean, when he is pain (maybe some minor scratch) he behaves as he was in a lot of pain. When he spooks it is as he has seen a great monster, but he doesn’t bolt or buck, just spins around once. Normally he doesn’t dismount the rider when he spooks, unless the rider is still green (remember, a school horse).

I don’t recall him doing this thing before. The very first thing I did was to have his teeth done, by the vet, and by the end of this month a proper teeth expert is due to do him.

I also changed the snaffle, from a double jointed one to a KK sprenger double jointed (my mare’s). Some professionals who rode him in the past said that he didn’t want to work on the bit (he fighted the contact and even reared sometimes) but I found that he likes a very subtle contact, with a light remainder from time to time. He has never fought my contact or reared. I used a Thiedemann reins gadget on him, but very loose, so that he would not hit my head in case he did head toss. But they only act when he rises much his head, for most of the time they were hanging and the horse were consistently on the bit with the light contact of the main reins. He does the head shake whether on the Thiedemann rein or not.

Before I bought him, he was in another stall, and I noticed that after being stalled some days (because of rain) he would shake his head up and down when you brought him out, on the lead. Also he shook a lot his head in the stall. So I changed him to another stall, in another aisle, with the aim to clean and disinfect very well his stall and to put dustfree savings. But in his new stall he stopped head shaking, even if he has to be there for some days when it rains.

Because of my accident I don’t feel confident enough to ride him again. Now he is being ridden by a teacher at the school (I pay for it) and this guy says he has had no problems at all (apart from the initial head toss at the trot). All the people that have seen him ridden by this guy say the pony is completely different from what they had seen before, he is engaged, willing and very expressive.

Only the head tossing thing is worrying me now.

And yes, when he is free or nervous because it it feeding time, he flings and tosses and shakes his head and neck as if he were a snake. This is what I call the arab thing.

And I forgot to add, HE SUDDENLY STOPS and shakes his head (a fraction of a second) and then he continues as if nothing had happened. Hopefully I will have a video done next week.

[Dressagelvr]

This is not normal. If you haven’t had a vet evaluate him, I’d do so ASAP. Could be anything from allergies to neuro.

Don’t rely on this BB for diagnostics. Get a pro.

[Montanas_Girl]

The infamous “Arab head toss” is a move performed in turnout/at liberty and is basically a “WEEEE!!!” statement. I’ve never known any of these horses to make that motion under saddle.

I agree that is sounds like some type of physical issue or acquired bad habit in your pony. I don’t think his breeding has anything to do with this.

[enjoytheride]

I’ve been riding arabs for years now and I have known dozens that did the head toss under saddle. Provided that he is sound and has no neurological issues, his teeth have been done, his bit is right, and his saddle fits, it goes away quickly with a steady hand and correct riding.

without seeing the behavior my assumption is it isn’t health related.

My mare will still head fling if she thinks we have been standing still for too long and she gets bored.

[sportponies4U]

Just a thought, but I thoroughly check his ears for any foriegn matter. What type of bedding is being used? I had a friend that had a horse with head shaking spent many $$$$, numerous evaluations from Vets, drugs etc. NOT ONE Vet thought to check deep inside the ears. My logical mind suggested to her to have ANOTHER vet ( she tried 4 different vets ) sedate her horse and check THROUGHLY inside the ears and guess what - Vet found a SMALL PIECE OF SHAVINGS THAT HAD WORKED ITSELF DEEP INSIDE THE EAR! Poor horse this had been in his ear for nearly a year. I agree with Dressagelvr this doesn’t sound normal especially since he is consistently doing this. I don’t think it is any type of behavioural issue.

[Mango20]

I have a pony who does the same in-the-field head toss (like before they run and buck) under saddle. He’s always done it. He does it on his own in the field, and when ridden. I don’t think it has anything to do with pain, he’s just sassy.
He looks like a Welsh small pony, but I suspect he’s actually a shetland/arab mix, since he was rescued from a farm with about 70 arabians on it, all the males ungelded.

I have another non-Arab horse that will also do the head swing on her own in the field, but never has done it under saddle.

[mvp]

I do think the head fling as the OP describes can be a bit of an Arabian thing. In the NSH I rode, it had to do with his conformation and his being asked to use his core to raise up his carcass between his shoulderblades. At the beginning of the ride, he Didn’t Wanna. Just like us dragging a$$ before that first set of push-ups at the gym, he’d fling his head and leave his rib cage low between his shoulderblades.

He used to do this more often, before he was ridden in the correct posture consistently enough to build some muscle and lose the expectation that throwing his head around would distract me from my mission.

I think Arabians are built a little downhill, despite the vertical neck. They are also quite flexible in the neck, so the head fling is an evasion of the ride that has them push from behind, raise their core and push out on the bit. The head fling is easy for them and, without a skilled, determined rider, it cotton pickin’ works.

[abrant]

I have a POA (arabian roots to that breed as well) who does what I call the arabian head toss that involves that circular motion with the neck snaking. He does it when he’s feeling playful in the pasture and occasionally under saddle when he is very tired and officially OVER IT at a horse show.

This is a good random YouTube video of what I’m talking about:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOmLoSobYSw

I would, as always, be an observant and empathetic horse person and see if there is anything that could be bothering him but at the same time it’s totally possible that a sensitive and outgoing horse can just be saying “ugh! yuck!” before going to work.

[eternalbeginner]

Yes, sort of that in the video. He stops, does it and then continues. I will check his ears, I checked his teeth, saddle, back and even his eyes but I forgot completely about the ears!!!

[chicamux]

It certainly is an Arab thing! Not all Arabs do it but ask a bunch of endurance riders and you’ll see a lot of smiles and head nodding! I call it tbe Arab head sling and yes it is a Wheeeeeeeee, yahoooooooo sort of thing. My 18 yr old still does it and we just pleasure ride (with energy) now. I have found myself with both reins on the same side of his neck many a time. Just flip it back and keep going!

[sportponies4U]

First, it must be determined if it is behavioral or medical issues. Yes, Arabs do this under saddle ,but mostly at liberty. I have the Queen of head flipping. She has ATTITUDE and freely does it daily.

[eternalbeginner]

This March the pony has been ridden by another rider at the yard. I haven’t ridden him since my accident last July (with my horse, not pony) and he was being ridden by one of the instructors at the school who happens to be my friend also. The pony did the same thing to her. But she took some weeks off for holidays and in the meantime this guy rode the pony. He has completely stopped the fling thing, when he is fresh he may spook but now it is something real he has seen or heard.

Now comes the question, my friend is back next week and I think she expects to start riding pony again… WWYD? Or rather, how would you tell her??

[SharonA]

You could say to her, “Friend, you will not believe this, but Pony apparently adores male rider and has completely stopped slinging her head around when male rider rides her. Is it okay with you if he keeps on being her rider so we can really get her out of the head-flinging habit?” I would think that Friend will say politely, “Yes, of course!”

Not all horses connect with all riders. Should not be a major thing. If it’s the money that your friend would miss, well, that’s unfortunate but the pony’s needs would outweigh this friend’s financial expectations. Hopefully your friend will say, “I’m really glad! He kept doing that with me and I felt so badly and like such a bad friend that I couldn’t get him past it! Yes, by all means, let male rider continue with him.”

[eternalbeginner]

Well… Maybe I should introduce the whole picture. My friend was riding some other horses and she shared some of them with this guy when he started to work at the yard. All horses are much better with him so owners are all changing riders. Other horses are school horses so if he takes the private horses she will be left with school horses only. I am anticipating (yes I do it a lot!!) her frustration at this. Another friend of mine said to me this weekend that it is none of my business if she feels pissed off because the guy is much better rider than her. And that I should do what is best for pony… And I guess he’s right but again… I’m a compulsive worry-pro!!!

[DesignerLabel]

Ah yes, also known as the “Arab Salute.” Nearly all of my Arabians, past and present, have done this at liberty or on the lunge, but not under saddle.