About Bills of Sale

[Sparrowette]

I’m a bit of a newbie horse gal in many ways. My mare, Holly, is the first I’ve bought just on my own with no SO involved.

There’s something that occurred while I was making the purchase that I’ve been wondering about. The seller had been in the “horse biz” for some time, knew my situation and seemed okay with it. After I paid her, she filled out all the breed registration papers so they were signed off, but didn’t offer a bill of sale. She seemed hesitant to do that when I told her I wanted one, and I had to push the issue to get it from her. She wrote it on a slip of paper, and then I had to remind her to sign it. Then date it.

Is there any reason why she would not have wanted to provide a bill of sale? With the registration papers signed off was it really needed? I’ve been having trouble figuring this out for some months, so I’m now asking you folks. Any ideas?

[BuddyRoo]

That’s odd to me. I’ve never had an interaction, even a rehome situation where no funds were exchanged, where we didn’t do a BOS. You need something to prove change in ownership. Papers with a registry aren’t really proof IME. I’m not an expert though.

Even when doing a rehome, we do BOS for a dollar.

[RubyTuesday]

Listen, as many problems as other people have had, ESPECIALLY with horses going to new owners or being stolen, don’t EVER have a transaction without a bill of sale. It can mean nothing or it can mean everything. Makes me wonder if there were issues in the background you were unaware of.

[paw]

I can’t think of a reason an honest seller wouldn’t give a bill of sale. Good for you for insisting!

I think some breed registries consider the papers proof of ownership, but not all do (many just dont want to get involved in what can happen when things don’t go well). A BOS is never a bad idea.

[Guilherme]

Transfer of registration papers in some breeds double as a bill of sale. Others do not.

I generally give folks a bill of sale as it makes life simpler for them. I’ve encountered a few who didn’t want one. They gave me a fist full of hundreds (way more than the “killer” price), loaded the horse, and were gone. So, to each his own.

G.

[RubyTuesday]

[QUOTE=Guilherme;7035113]
Transfer of registration papers in some breeds double as a bill of sale. Others do not.

I generally give folks a bill of sale as it makes life simpler for them. I’ve encountered a few who didn’t want one. They gave me a fist full of hundreds (way more than the “killer” price), loaded the horse, and were gone. So, to each his own.

G.[/QUOTE]

Bills of sale help in legalese in ways registration papers can’t in a lot of places.

[imaginique]

When my friend, who boards her horse at my place, bought her gelding, I insisted that she get a bill of sale and even printed one out for her on the computer. All she had to do was fill out the information and sign it and have the seller sign it. She evidently did not see the need and didn’t get it. The horse is not registered so that would have been the only proof of ownership she had. She was given papers to register him with a color registry but needed… proof of ownership so was unable to register him. So now if anything ever comes up, which it probably won’t, where she needs proof of ownership, all she will have is my word and photos taken over the years. I just don’t understand why it was such a hardship to ask the seller to sign a simple bill of sale. :no:

[Sparrowette]

[QUOTE=RubyTuesday;7035078]
Listen, as many problems as other people have had, ESPECIALLY with horses going to new owners or being stolen, don’t EVER have a transaction without a bill of sale. It can mean nothing or it can mean everything. Makes me wonder if there were issues in the background you were unaware of.[/QUOTE]

Actually, There WERE issues that were not disclosed. Holly turned out to have a bone chip in the left front fetlock and I eventually decided on surgery. I called the seller about it, and she claimed that it must have been something that happened since I bought her (!). Meanwhile the vet is telling me that “there are arthritic changes in the other leg,” due to her taking weight off the bad leg for so long. Another Vet at the surgicenter told me “It happens to thoroughbreds, too. People just push young horses too hard, too soon.”

Also, (this is not my main issue, but as an aside) Holly was supposed to have been well trained, just not used in a while. She’s with a trainer now, just started a couple of days ago, and trainer told me last night “She steers like a horse who’s never been ridden.”

Since I found out about the leg, her denial, and the vet’s statements, I’ve been wondering if she had some diabolical plan…

To be fair, I think she cared for the horse in some way. She had bred her and the ASB website shows her still owning the dam. She told me her daughter was Holly’s trainer/shower etc. and Holly was supposed to have become the seller’s personal riding horse eventually. They showed Holly as a weaning, yearling (first for both in small classes) and 3YO at Westworld in Saddleseat (third/last place).

Edit: I just remembered - She didn’t put the date of sale on the papers. That was left blank.

[RubyTuesday]

I recently heard a story similar to your last paragraph with a horse I was looking into of a different breed. The whole thing plus the video I received did not “pass the smell test” so I dropped the whole transaction like a hot potato.

It’s easier to get bills of sale if you have them printed up already…I have a generic blank one here that I use for everything and can alter details to fit situations in Word before I print out copies. Just an idea for the future. I usually have a copy for the seller as well.