Acceptable Treats for Foundered Horse

[caballus]

In fact, food can get in the way of real connection wtih them.
I totally disagree – horses will ‘share’ food as a way of saying, “You’re my best bud - come share dinner with me.”

There are a ton of fresh fruits and veggies that can be given to the IR horse; some of them are actually shown to be beneficial for lowering blood sugar. The higher GI fruits are not adviseable, of course, with watermelon being the highest on the index. But ones such as apples, carrots, broccoli, spinach, kale, oranges, bananas, berries of many sorts, peaches (no pits), plums (also no pits), pears … all will add not only fresh glyconutrients (if vine ripened) that are essential to healthy cells and health, in general, but also beneficial enzymes that help to break down the food (forage matter) for optimal digestion. Nuts that are beneficial are peanuts (yes, shell and all – raw), almonds and raw pumpkin seeds. Organic is optimal.

These are things that I feed my guys regularly but they also like for treats. Just cut up into bite sized pieces if necessary.

[deltawave]

but also beneficial enzymes that help to break down the food (forage matter) for optimal digestion.

Nope, still not so, no matter how many times you say it . . . :rolleyes: I thought you had gotten this one figured out?

[D_Taylor]

I think hay cubes would be the smartest choice. Roll them in some fancy salt with egg whites as a sticker if you are feeling festive.

Xylitol is a sweetner that is toxic to dogs and some other species. But claimed to be safe for humans and horses. So maybe not the smartest choice if you also own dogs (just in case you own greedy dogs like I do) but diabetic candy (for humans) with other artificial sweetners in the aisles at any discount store would work. Crush up some diabetic peppermints and do the same as above.

[twelvegates]

I am in NO WAY pushing this product (Heiro), but the website offers considerations for treats for IR horses:

http://equinemedsurg.com/ir5.html

[deltawave]

Three of my four love peppermint TUMS, and they’re good for the tummy, too! Unfortunately the one that has the sensitive tummy hates peppermint . . . :sigh:

[sid]

Caballus - perhaps I was not clear.

I have found that the best relationship with a horse/human not be determined by food as the “motivator” for the relationship from the horses perspective.

I love to feed treats, but do so very judiciously and never regularly lest the habit of wanting treats become behaviourly problematic. So it’s not something I do routinely. When I do it’s never “expected”…as horses habituate PDQ.

My horses respond to me because they feel safe with me…they come when called, not for a treat, but for the companionship and grooming/touch. Of course, most were born here and have not been passed around from owner to owner, who may rightfully feel the best way to bond with a horse is with a treat. I’ve had to do that with a few rescues and others…

I ramble. When it comes to giving treats to IR horses, it can really be a crap shoot. Some are moderately sensitive, others can founder at the breath of sugar or high-energy carbs.

I know. I’ve had more of my share of them, the worst my stallioin Boleem who I lost 3 years ago with the sudden onset of IR at age 23. Managed him for 4 years, but never took a chance on a “treat” (nor the others that were in their mid-20’s). The littlest dietary change could set off a severe founder.

So…I’m ony speaking from hands-on experience. There is no “cookie cutter” management for an IR horse, so I tend to take the minimalist approach and let my joy of giving treats go right out the window. May make me happy, but never know what it will do to them.:no:

[marta]

treats

i think that some animals are more food motivated than others and for those treats work best. i find that to be true with horses and dogs.

my mare does not like to be groomed and likes to be touched only when SHE feels like it. on the other hand, she likes treats. i believe that after 14 years together our bond goes beyond treats, however, treats are still the most effective way for me to reward desired behavior. they also make her happy. while the “food is love” attitude may lead to dysfunction in humans, i don’t think same is necessarily true for our relationship with animals.

for a horse like her who does not care for the human touch, massage would feel like torture. my dog likewise responds better to treats as a reward than to touch. other dogs prefer their favorite toy. a good trainer will be able to determine what works best for each individual animal and use that as a tool.

[TheOtherHorse]

My IR mare gets Standlee alfalfa pellets from TSC. The pellets are slightly larger than most, and work well for treats.

[Texarkana]

I’ve found most horses are perfectly happy with hay cubes and almonds if you need sugar-free treats.

[mjmvet]

My IR mare hates touch and grooming most of the time. (There are rare occasions when she’s sleepy and likes her belly rubbed, and in the spring when flies make her itchy…)

I use Hay stretcher pellets (very sparingly, as they do have a bit of molasses in them), whole peanuts in the shell, and teaspoon sized portions of Triple Crown Lite. Occasionally, sugar free ‘starlight’ mints. I wouldn’t be comfortable using most fruits as they all have a lot of sugar in them. I tried celery, and she soundly rejected it. =)

I use treats in training, and I am fully conscious that food is not love. For my horse, it IS information though. I don’t give free treats, ever. If I give a treat, I’ll always ask her to do something first, then reward. She does not mug me for food because she knows the rules of engagement.

[caballus]

I wouldn’t be comfortable using most fruits as they all have a lot of sugar in them. I
PROCESSED CARBS VS. FRUIT/VEGGIE CARBS: Processed = little to no fiber. Goes through the foregut QUICKLY and raises insulin levels because of GLUCOSE. Veggies, fruits = FRUCTOSE = NO insulin reaction and go through the system slowly for maximum uptake of nutrients.

I’ve found fresh fruits and vegetables to LOWER the numbers in IR horses and actually cause them to ‘naturally’ level out to where they ‘belong’. Yes, veterinary observed and noted.

[deltawave]

Food Item Total Carbohydrate Total Sugars Free Fructose Free Glucose Sucrose Fructose/
Glucose
Ratio Sucrose
as a*% of
Total Sugars
Fruits * * * * * * *
Apple 13.8 10.4 5.9 2.4 2.1 2.0 19.9
Apricot 11.1 9.2 0.9 2.4 5.9 0.7 63.5
Banana 22.8 12.2 4.9 5.0 2.4 1.0 20.0
Fig, dried 63.9 47.9 22.9 24.8 0.07 0.93 0.001
Grapes 18.1 15.5 8.1 7.2 0.2 1.1 1.0
Peach 9.5 8.4 1.5 2.0 4.8 0.9 56.7
Pear 15.5 9.8 6.2 2.8 0.8 2.1 8.0
Pineapple 13.1 9.9 2.1 1.7 6.0 1.1 60.8
Plum 11.4 9.9 3.1 5.1 1.6 0.66 0.16
Vegetables * * * * * * *
Beet, Red 9.6 6.8 0.1 0.1 6.5 1.0 96.2
Carrot 9.6 4.7 0.6 0.6 3.6 1.0 70.0
Corn, Sweet 19.0 3.2 0.5 0.5 2.1 1.0 64.0
Red Pepper, Sweet 6.0 4.2 2.3 1.9 0.0 1.2 0.0
Onion, Sweet 7.6 5.0 2.0 2.3 0.7 0.9 14.3
Sweet Potato 20.1 4.2 0.7 1.0 2.5 0.9 60.3
Yam 27.9 0.5 tr tr tr na tr
Sugar Cane 13 - 18 0.2 – 1.0 0.2 – 1.0 11 - 16 1.0 100
Sugar Beet 17 - 18 0.1 – 0.5 0.1 – 0.5 16 - 17 1.0 100
Data obtained at [3].[21] All data with a unit of g (gram) are based on 100 g of a food item. The fructose / glucose ratio is calculated by dividing the sum of free fructose plus half sucrose by the sum of free glucose plus half sucrose.

[deltawave]

Fruit contains fructose and glucose, in ratios that vary hugely depending on the fruit. A couple of bites of which, no matter what you choose, is not going to be more than the proverbial “drop in the bucket” considering the 20-30 pounds of food a horse eats in a given day!

Feed a carrot or an apple or a peppermint. The four or five mouthfuls of hay the horse just ate off the floor contains more sugar.

[mjmvet]

That’s really interesting. It’s easy to find studies in humans regarding the metabolism of fructose. (For instance, ingestion of large amounts being associated with insulin resistance through an indirect effect on leptin) but hard to find anything published about horses. The only studies I could find included the older ‘NSC’ or the newer ‘NFC’, which lumped together all the sugars - sucrose, glucose and fructose, as well as rapidly fermentable starches.

How much fresh fruits and vegetables are you feeding a day, and what numbers are you testing?

[Katy_Watts]

Fructose matters to IR horses

@caballus;6020327

Veggies, fruits = FRUCTOSE = NO insulin reaction and go through the system slowly for maximum uptake of nutrients.

The focus on only glucose has been changed by studies that show that feeding fructose exacerbates Insulin Resistance in
Previously Laminitic (PL) horses more so than glucose. (1) Also, both glucose and fructose have been found to create an abnormal insulin response in PL. (2)

(1) Geor RJ, de Silva J, Meyers K, Smith T, Harris P. Effects of short-term adaptation to dietary carbohydrates on glucose and insulin dynamics in healthy and overweight/obese, insulin resistant mares. In: 2nd AAEP Foundation Equine
Laminitis Research Workshop; 2009: 28; West Palm Beach, FL, USA.

(2) Borer KE, Bailey SR, Menzies-Gow NJ, Berhane Y, Harris PA, Elliott J. Insulin and glucose responses to feeding glucose, fructose, and inulin to normal and previously laminitic ponies. In: Proceedings 2010 ACVIM Forum; 2010: 197; Anaheim, CA, USA.

[caballus]

[QUOTE=mjmvet;6020426]
That’s really interesting. It’s easy to find studies in humans regarding the metabolism of fructose. (For instance, ingestion of large amounts being associated with insulin resistance through an indirect effect on leptin) but hard to find anything published about horses. The only studies I could find included the older ‘NSC’ or the newer ‘NFC’, which lumped together all the sugars - sucrose, glucose and fructose, as well as rapidly fermentable starches.

How much fresh fruits and vegetables are you feeding a day, and what numbers are you testing?[/QUOTE] I and others feed about a quart or two of mixed fruits and veggies instead of processed ‘grain’. Just once a day. This is in addition to free choice, good quality hay AND grazing fo grass. (Now, in New England, the grazing ain’t great) … Added to the ‘salads’ is oil (Olive or Safflower infused with garlic and either Rosemary or Thyme sprig), maybe some celtic salt and kelp along with organic ACV (Apple Cider Vinegar). Again, this is just once a day, whenever. “Numbers” that have been tested/recorded are dependent upon what condition the horse is exhibiting – Insulin resistance, elevated liver enzymes (unknown cause), etc. The other condition that I’ve noted from clients to have improved has been Cushings. Most of the horses (about a dozen or more) have been able to be taken off their Pergolide still with favorable results. But please note that all processed foods and chemicals/drugs have been removed from the diet and treatment.

[mjmvet]

Ah, Katy, that second study is getting closer to what I’m looking for. So far I haven’t found anything good about fructose in horses or humans. I think I’ll stick to the peanuts/hay cubes etc.

[caballus]

[QUOTE=Katy Watts;6020447]
The focus on only glucose has been changed by studies that show that feeding fructose exacerbates Insulin Resistance in
Previously Laminitic (PL) horses more so than glucose. (1) Also, both glucose and fructose have been found to create an abnormal insulin response in PL. (2)

(1) Geor RJ, de Silva J, Meyers K, Smith T, Harris P. Effects of short-term adaptation to dietary carbohydrates on glucose and insulin dynamics in healthy and overweight/obese, insulin resistant mares. In: 2nd AAEP Foundation Equine
Laminitis Research Workshop; 2009: 28; West Palm Beach, FL, USA.

(2) Borer KE, Bailey SR, Menzies-Gow NJ, Berhane Y, Harris PA, Elliott J. Insulin and glucose responses to feeding glucose, fructose, and inulin to normal and previously laminitic ponies. In: Proceedings 2010 ACVIM Forum; 2010: 197; Anaheim, CA, USA.[/QUOTE] Would be interested in reading the full studies. (Or perhaps I have them - will have to check.) … but, in the horses that I know they are probably 80% PL and have responded quite favorably to the salads and grazing. So guess they didn’t read the studies. The latest report I’ve gotten(last week) is from a woman with a 39 year old Morgan - Cushings, IR, PL … losing weight and condition (as should be expected at that age) but since going off all processed foods (in September) and only eating good quality T/A hay and salads has gained 60# and is back to being regularly ridden lightly by his older owner. Cushings ‘coat’ is gone and normal coat is shiny and sleek. Energy has increased; alertness has increased; Hooves have toughened up and the horse has gone sound, vet in disbelief but told owner whatever she’s doing is working and to continue doing whatever she’s doing. I like what the horses are saying …

[mjmvet]

Insulin and Glucose Responses to Feeding Glucose, Fructose and Inulin to Normal and Previously Laminitic Ponies
ACVIM 2010
K.E. Borer1; S.R. Bailey2; N.J. Menzies-Gow1; Y. Berhane1; P.A. Harris3; J. Elliott1
1Royal Veterinary College, London, UK; 2University of Melbourne, Australia; 3WALTHAM Centre for Pet Nutrition, Leics, UK
20099554

Ponies prone to laminitis (PLP) may be insulin resistant. Differences in serum [insulin] between PLP and normal ponies (NP) have been shown after inclusion of inulin in the diet at 3g/kg/day.1 The aim of this study was to assess the effect of feeding glucose, fructose and inulin on serum [glucose] and [insulin] in NP and PLP during the summer.

Six NP and 6 PLP randomly received glucose, fructose and inulin each at 1 g/kg/day once daily for 3 consecutive days, mixed with a commercial chaff-based feed whilst housed and fed ad-lib Timothy hay. Each carbohydrate was fed under 2 management conditions: after the ponies had been eating only grass for at least 7 days and again after eating only Timothy hay for at least 7 days. A wash-out period of at least 7 days was allowed between each carbohydrate feeding. Blood was collected over a 12 hour period following feeding on each day. Glucose was analysed by a commercial laboratory and insulin using a radioimmunoassay (Coat-A-Count, Siemens) previously validated in the authors’ laboratory. Responses of NP and PLP to each carbohydrate were compared using a 2-way ANOVA and changes over time using a 1-way ANOVA. Results are reported as mean ± SD and significance was set at p<0.05.

Following either of the preliminary basal diets (grass or hay), plasma [glucose] increased significantly to peak 2 hours after feeding glucose or fructose in both NP and PLP. Peak [glucose] after feeding glucose was 1.8-fold higher than baseline in PLP and 1.6-fold higher in NP. After feeding fructose, peak [glucose] was 1.2-1.3-fold higher than baseline in both NP and PLP. Minimal increases in plasma [glucose] occurred after feeding inulin at this dose.

After becoming accustomed to either grass or hay diets, serum [insulin] increased significantly above baseline after feeding glucose or fructose in both NP and PLP. Serum insulin responses after glucose feeding were significantly greater in PLP compared with NP, from 2 to 4 hours after feeding (days 2 and 3). Peak [insulin] after feeding glucose (2 hours after feeding; day 3) was 2.5 times higher in PLP compared to NP (425 ± 194µIU/ml vs. 167 ± 89µIU/ml). This represented an increase over baseline [insulin] of 33-fold and 15-fold in PLP and NP, respectively. The AUC for [insulin] was significantly greater in PLP vs. NP when feeding glucose after ponies had eaten only hay for 7 days previously (8616 ± 5230 vs. 3983 ± 3005). Serum [insulin] increased after feeding fructose, and was significantly higher in PLP vs. NP 2 hours after feeding. Peak [insulin] after feeding fructose (2 hours after feeding; day 3) was 1.7 times higher in PLP compared to NP (208 ± 151µIU/ml vs. 124 ± 110µIU/ml). This represented an increase over baseline [insulin] of 10-fold and 5-fold in PLP and NP, respectively. Minimal increases in serum [insulin] occurred after feeding inulin at this dose.

In conclusion, an insulin response after feeding glucose or fructose occurs in both NP and PLP, with exaggerated responses occurring in PLP. Differences in serum [insulin] after feeding 1g/kg/day glucose or fructose may distinguish between NP and PLP. Inulin fed at a low dose in this study had no significant effect on serum [insulin].

References

1. Bailey et al.(2007) J Am Vet Med Assoc 231: 1365-1373.

[caballus]

I wonder if the ‘fructose’ were fed in a more natural state, as with vegetables and fruits, whether the results would be the same? There are recommendations that raw fruits and vegetables be consumed in the human diet to treat Diabetes Type II; I don’t see how it would be much different for the horse that is designed to eat forages to begin with? As I’ve said, I’ve had and observed positive results from taking horses off processed feeds and feeding a fresh diet in addition to free choice hay and grazing. And once again – vets are ‘stumped’ but have witnessed the same. An interesting study here: http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/26/4/1008.full which contradicts what was just posted above.