Here’s another study conclusion: “In conclusion, substitution of moderate amounts of fructose for complex carbohydrates can improve glycaemic control and insulin sensitivity in patients with type 2 diabetes.”
Gwen,
I don’t think anyone is surprised that contradictory new scientific studies do not change your intuitive based beliefs. I am not engaging in your discussion, as I have found that discussing differences in religion are a waste of time and energy. Just posted so others might get another side of the story.
Got nothing to do with intuitive based beliefs … it has everything to do with the results I’ve seen with my own two eyes. And what others have seen and experienced.
[QUOTE=caballus;6020852]
Got nothing to do with intuitive based beliefs … it has everything to do with the results I’ve seen with my own two eyes. And what others have seen and experienced.[/QUOTE]
Science has built in guards to protect against bias and placebo effect. Belief based systems do not.
http://www.experiment-resources.com/double-blind-experiment.html
[QUOTE=caballus;6020451]
I and others feed about a quart or two of mixed fruits and veggies instead of processed ‘grain’. .[/QUOTE]
I am with ya! But it may be more of what you are not feeding than what you are feeding.
Let me guess . . . minerals? That you sell?
[QUOTE=Katy Watts;6020935]
Science has built in guards to protect against bias and placebo effect. Belief based systems do not.
http://www.experiment-resources.com/double-blind-experiment.html[/QUOTE] Really? Placebo effects being mentioned again when discussing responses of animals? Horses? Bias’ and ‘placebo effects’ don’t alter blood tests nor do they alter visible physical responses of horses.
[QUOTE=Charlie Piccione;6020953]
I am with ya! But it may be more of what you are not feeding than what you are feeding.;)[/QUOTE] Or, maybe a good mixture of the two?
It is not and never has been the response of the animals that is subject to the placebo effect. It is and always has been the response of the human making the observation, particularly a human who has a vested interest in seeing that their remedy has “worked”.
The better term for it is “bias”. And it is the bane of all good science. Bad science or non-science, however, can carry on just swimmingly in its presence. 
[QUOTE=caballus;6021034]
Really? Placebo effects being mentioned again when discussing responses of animals? Horses? Bias’ and ‘placebo effects’ don’t alter blood tests nor do they alter visible physical responses of horses.[/QUOTE]
Oh, you have data? Please post your before and after blood tests, and the conditions under which they were pulled. Blood tests have a lot of normal variation. That’s why we must compare them to control horses, to see if the variation from the treatment is more than the nontreated horses.
Bias and placebo effects most defiantly are involved when the owner (who desperately WANTS to see something good happen) is interpreting the response of the horse, and the hero/savior is the one conveying those results to the public. We all delude ourselves. Brain plasticity helps us remember those things that make us feel better. Finding something to help horses makes us feel better, so our memories help us rearrange facts to fit. Science fully acknowledges this form of delusion, and has procedures that prevent it form interfering with study results.
Science fully acknowledges this form of delusion
We are not dealing with the scientific world here, however . . .
Bias and placebo effects most defiantly are involved when the owner (who desperately WANTS to see something good happen) is interpreting the response of the horse, and the hero/savior is the one conveying those results to the public.
The hero/savior is the owner who is trying to do what is best for his/her horse. There are no other heros - other than the horses themselves. Bias’ and placebos don’t necessarily involve the attending veterinarian.
Edited to add – science is constantly ‘contradicting’ itself. One day this or that is the answer to this or that and the next its not and something else takes its place. This is natural as man strives to understand more and more of the ‘scientific world’. Horses have been eating grass and fresh forages for millions of years and that includes fruits and roots and trees and vegetables indigenous to their ‘natural’ environment and have been thriving – why is it that in the past two or three generations that horses (and humans) are getting more and more sick when ‘science’ is supposedly finding all the answers? Type II Diabetes/Insulin Resistance WAS, just a couple of decades ago, classified as an ‘old age disease’. So was Cushings. Yet now they’ve become so prevalent that a day doesn’t go by without someone we know finding out that his or her horse is IR at 4 years old or has Cushings at 5 years old? Why do we not see this in the feral herds? Used to be advised to 'throw the horse out to grass to get a bloom on 'im". and “when in doubt, turn him out.” Now its ‘get the horse off all grass - he can never eat grass again!’ … the horse is STILL the same, biologically, as the horse was centuries ago, eating wonderful pastures and grass. Why do we have children as young as 4 or 5 years old now being diagnosed with “old age” Type II Diabetes? “Science” is coming up with treatments that somewhat ‘manage’ the conditions - but what are they coming up with to prevent them, instead? Or, to cure them? There is a common thread in all this – and the public is coming to recognize it (to the point that there is now a formal title/psychiatric diagnosis for people who seek to eat more organic and natural foods) … science isn’t keeping up with it tho. The past 3 generations of transferring from ‘natural, live foods’ to processed crap is destroying the health of not only humans, but animals, as well. All one has to do is look to see …
[QUOTE=caballus;6021116]
“Science” is coming up with treatments that somewhat ‘manage’ the conditions - but what are they coming up with to prevent them, instead?[/QUOTE]
oh, its the old ‘science doesn’t have all the answers, so we should make some up to make us feel better’ argument.
I forgot I have given up trying to have an intelligent conversation on an internet BB.
Back to quilting. Its far more productive and satisfying.
[QUOTE=Katy Watts;6021276]
oh, its the old ‘science doesn’t have all the answers, so we should make some up to make us feel better’ argument.
I forgot I have given up trying to have an intelligent conversation on an internet BB.
Back to quilting. Its far more productive and satisfying.[/QUOTE]Didn’t ‘come up’ with any argument at all. I asked a question … I’ll repeat, …
“Science” is coming up with treatments that somewhat ‘manage’ the conditions - but what are they coming up with to prevent them, instead?
Personally, I like to try to prevent ‘situations’ rather than end up having to try to ‘fix’ them. Not part of the solution? Then part of the “problem” … and all that. When one is constantly focused on trying to repair/fix/cure and not addressing the causes then the whole situation becomes a ridiculous un-ending circle. Address the causes and then the ‘fixes’ or ‘management’ won’t be so frequently needed. Instead of focusing on treating the ‘dis-ease’, focus on addressing the cause and the host of that dis-ease. Doesn’t do any good to kill off the dis-ease when the very situation that allowed that dis-ease to take hold is not ‘fixed’, right? What are the factors that CAUSE Insulin Resistance? One strong factor is diet; the other is exercise. Those are two causatives that can be addressed rather simply and effectively.
Horses have also evolved eating loco weed and occasionally dying from that, not to mention any number of toxic things they stupidly ingest from time to time.
Why do we have children as young as 4 or 5 years old now being diagnosed with “old age” Type II Diabetes? “Science” is coming up with treatments that somewhat ‘manage’ the conditions - but what are they coming up with to prevent them, instead? Or, to cure them? There is a common thread in all this – and the public is coming to recognize it
Yes, it’s called “eating too damn much and sitting on our fat asses”. :lol: Not only curable, but 100% preventable! One can get quite fat and unhealthy on organic and natural foods, if one has the money to spend and the lack of will to get out and MOVE . . .
Sergeantsville Grain & Feed carries McCauley products. You can most certainly use Alam CUBES (large pellets) as treats for your horse. It is grain free and molasses free and safe for IR and actively foundering horses! They also make great treats for clicker training! They are available in 50lbs bags, so you can even put them in all of the Christmas stockings for your friends (as long as they are horsie friends)
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