I just compared the finish list of the education ride with the finish list of Tevis itself. Forty two riders finished the education ride (all two day finishers but one). Of those 42 riders, 18 started the Tevis and 13 finished, with a completion rate of 72%. Looks like a pretty good investment of time and money.
I agree. Was the education ride new this year?
I’m sorry, but this is just too over the top.
Life is dangerous guys. And a challenge isn’t a challenge unless it’s (DUH) – challenging!!
More horses in endurance over all and (I’m willing to bet) in Tevis become ill and/or die from metabolic issues then from falling off the trail – so why not just ban the sport entirely?
Or ban horses from running in the pasture – I’ve had 'em break legs doing that. The fact that 100-200 people ride that ride every year and someone falls every 3-5 years and dies (does NOT happen every year, get your facts straight) tells you you have some 3 deaths every 600 rides.
Please…reorient your reality. A horse – a top-class, well-trained, well-conditioned athlete – sustained a major injury during warm-up for a dressage competition because of one bad step.
Thousands upon thousands of horses have done the Tevis trail over the years safely and without harm – many ridden by people with little or no training or common sense. The poor horse took one bad step…it happens.
But is it commonplace? No. Is the trail so dangerous that horses are falling off left and right – absolutely not.
It was an ACCIDENT, folks. They happen anywhere and everywhere.
Life can be dangerous business and it’s often where & when you least suspect it.
What Kyzteke said…
And there is no harm in asking for the investigation into the accident be published. In fact, there is a benefit to it. If they show pics of a nice section of trail, where the horse tripped, and it is obvious that the horse simply mis-stepped, then outrage dies down. Trying to clamp it down before-hand is only going to increase the pressure of outrage. Contents under pressure…
If the powers that be within this sport don’t make some type of reasonable effort to examine what really happened, determine could it have been prevented, can we improve this section of trail for the future, etc. then there might be a heavy fist slam down on the sport from the outsiders, eventually. Do you really want THAT Kytzke, because I don’t.
How is this any different than the TWH people who say oh yeah soring, that’s nothing. Just don’t worry about it. Before you know it, you have the government involved. What about Eventing and the deaths that sport has had recently? There is public outcry over that.
As it stands, I think endurance flies under the radar. It’s is a small sect of the horse population that doesn’t get a whole lot of publicity, coverage, or attention by other horse people. If we want to keep flying under the radar, I think something has to be done to minimize death, injury and unnecessary risk as much as possible. Lots of horses are treated for lameness or metabolic crisis at lots of rides. I’ve seen plenty of it myself. But it never makes any kind of headline because these horses don’t die. When horses start dying, people start paying attention.
I don’t think the trail should be closed down, or that the ride shouldn’t take place. But I do think that the officials in the sport need to make a genuine effort to investigate this fully and issue a public statement on what will be done to help minimize this risk in the future.
I could step in a hole and break my ankle in my own back yard. But when it happens at my place of work, that is a whole nother thing ENTIRELY. Responsible employers take every little slip, twist, spill, and incident serioiusly because they know that little oopsies add up to big ass problems.
My horse could trip and break her neck in my own pasture, but when it happens at a public event, sanctioned by an organization, and out there in the public eye for god and everybody to see, then it does deserve a lot more attention.
And what if it’s a less than parking-lot-smooth part of the trail where the horse tripped? Will you take into account that some 10,000 other horses have somehow managed to traverse that section WITHOUT falling/dying? Or will we make everything so clean, so smooth and so EASY that there is no longer any skill to finishing the race?
People should be aware that ANY ride where the completion rate hovers around 50% every single year is going to tough. There is a REASON the completion rate is this low…it’s a tough-ass ride. It requires a fit horse, a fit rider, a smart/savvy horse AND rider and more than a dollop of luck. That is what makes completing the Tevis an accomplishment. If it was easy any moron on a plug could do it.
Rather than make the ride easier, making doing it tougher. Perhaps riders need to qualify. But would that have stopped this accident? Apparently “no,” since both rider and horse were accomplished endurance competitors.
Again, that is why they call it an “ACCIDENT.”
Soring is not an accident. People do it on purpose. Can’t compare.
And that brings up another problem – this idea that everything must be fixable and/or preventable and, if it DOES happen it must be SOMEBODY’S fault. If you break your leg in your back yard it’s YOUR fault? But if you take a bad step at work and it’s your EMPLOYER’S fault? Can’t it just be a bad step?
I’m sure there WILL be an “investigation” and much speculation (since I doubt anyone was filming the event) – chances are a tired horse and tired rider took a bad step and there you go.
Four years ago a friend of mine’s boss rode the Tevis on a horse my friend had conditioned. It was dark, they got off trail and fell off an embankment into the river. Managed to get back up to the trail, got reoriented by trailer volunteers and actually finished the ride – 15 minutes over time. That horse was pretty banged up (as was the rider), but he did recover. However one or the other could have easily died.
You are riding up to 24 hrs. straight on tough, challenging ground – the last part of the ride is done in the dark…geeze, it’s a wonder there aren’t MORE problems.
As for the general public – when it comes to horses, they are, by and large, total and complete idiots who don’t know horses, don’t know the sport and really don’t know the risks. Besides, as I mentioned before, everyone today seems to think Life should be risk-free.
It’s not and never will be. If you don’t want to take a risk like Tevis, which is obviously more extreme than just sitting at a desk (but FAR less risky than driving any freeway you care to name), then don’t do it.
But I am SO sick of everything being dumbed down…the value of the achievement dwindles to Zero.
Maybe you think it’s an accident. But maybe some people will think it was negligence and could have been prevented. Better trail, more rigid entry criteria to keep out horses with a record of multiple metabolic and lameness pulls, guards to keep horses who slip and trip from going “over the edge.”
All the eventing deaths were supposedly accidents. But there seem to be plenty of folks who say no, they were preventable if those special jump pins were used that allow obstacles to fall down when struck by a horse.
The ACCIDENT is the horse slipping/tripping/hitting a jump, etc. The aftermath is what really matters. Any horse can slip and fall down. It’s happened to me riding on the flat grass in my own back yard. But on a crowded trail with horses packed nose to tail, in the dark, adrenaline pumping, riders and horses who are exhausted/hungry/tired, maybe more can be done to safeguard those horses who DO have accidents. Maybe nothing can be done. I don’t know. I don’t know the trail at ALL so I can’t do anything more than pontificate. But it does need to be looked at.
I’m not issuing any kind of judgement on the rider or the horse or the accident. I wasn’t there. I don’t know what exactly happened any more than you do. All I’m saying is that if we don’t want to be in the limelight for killing horses, we better sit up and pay attention and not sweep it under the rug.
so what do we do? start building concrete barriers to ensure safety of horse and rider? sounds to me like folks traverse these trails on regular basis while trail riding.
i think some folks are missing the point here - endurance horses are more likely to die of metabolic issues or colic than from falling off cliffs. and some accidents are bound to happen no matter how many precautions you take.
I think it becomes an issue of - what is an acceptable level of risk and casualty before the public wants to put an end to it.
The reason all the vet checks with P/R criteria and lameness exams were put into place was to minimize risk, injuries, and casualties. The governing body could have said - well, just gallop balls to the wall and the last horse standing wins. But they don’t do that. They have a very strict protocol in place to safeguard horses from over-riding. I dont feel it is unreasonable at all to ask that the AERC put more safety checks in place for the more difficult rides, which traverse dangerous sections of trail.
I think we are in agreement that in this day and age the WSTF will investigate this event very publicly and reach a conclusion. From what observers say, this was an accident. But by the way while we are thinking about it, how safe is the trail? How can we avoid accidents or over-riding horses and increase finish percentages? We should really look at each ride after it is done and think, how could we do better next time? Making a ride as safe as possible for the horse within the ride framework and with good completion records should be our goals. That is why for example we have controlled starts on pavement, and sections where riders are required to get off and lead (for example, the swinging bridge on the Tevis trail has that requirement as well as maximum allowable number of horses).
From the description, this looks like a freak accident . The poor guy was not even riding the horse, just leading it.
Stuff happens. One of my friends was in a group ride on a newly opened section of trail . A couple of riders on a single track , not too steep. The trail under the trail boss simply gave way and they tumbled down -but both horse and rider were ok. But when you are six horse and riders on a single track-turning around and preventing the others from freaking out is an interesting challenge. The hillside wasn’t steep and neither the dropoff , so they just clambered up.
Unless you are riding an old , arthritic horse that can’t trot, you are taking a risk. The section of the trail I did was not dangerous-but I didn’t do the whole thing. But I was moseying around at my own pace and enjoying the scenery. But trails like that and you have 100 mi and some riders finishing in at 12 hrs is just amazing.
People know it is a tough ride. They don’t make it seem like an easy ride. There are many vet checks along the way. Yes you can put criteria-but nothing can omit every possibility. In this case-sounds just like a freak accident. These are public trails and nobody is going to put up guards to satisfy a group of riders that do it once a year. A lot of trails in the sierras are like that or even in L.A.
The trails in the L.A.a area mtns are just as bad -minus the altitude, snow plus a terrific view of the coast line!
After a while, you just get used to drop offs and so does your horse. yes it is dangerous-but I much rather do a 10-15 mi round trip on my horse to get to a view point and stay there for a while and come back rather than hike and go huffing and puffing. The ride seems to be checking the trails , making it safe-it is evolving and one freak accident cannot make it some dangerous ride. it is tough. But me and my mare can easily do it today-providing I do a two or three day camping style ride!!:winkgrin: :lol: Now when you restrict to 24 hrs -that is tough.
But anybody who signs up for it should know that. I do understand if you are coming from some places with no mountains and don’t have exposure etc. and your horse hasn’t ridden that kind of terrain, yeah it can be challenging. But there is a reason many wan’t to do it. I know more people who tried and were pulled than I do who have completed! It is tough and why many wan’t to accomplish it. You can ride around an arena all day and do 25 mi -but that is not what some seek.
Yep, Marta, you pretty much summed it up. Sometimes no one is “neglient” except karma or Fate.
Sometimes someone IS – but I’d say in this case it had to be either the horse or the rider – negligent in the instance of simply taking a bad step or having your attention wander, or falling asleep for a split second. I mean, how well does a person sleep the night before they try the Tevis? And how many people understand what it feels like to be awake for 20+hrs. solid? As a nurse, I’ve been awake for over 28 hrs. straight and let me tell you, some weird stuff starts happening!
So for one instant – one split second of a heartbeat – you make a wrong step. Most of the time we might take a tumble…but sometimes the worst happens. And there we have it.
I tell you, if the ride managers start being “responsible” for everything that happens between you & your horse while you are out on the trail it’s going to be a dead sport REAL fast.
Boy, I’d say that’s true for all horse sports. I have a dim recollection of a lawsuit against a horse show, 10 or more years ago, in California I think- lady gets dumped off her horse riding between barn and arena, and sues management, because, gee, whatever it was that caused her horse to spook, they should have made sure it wasn’t there! If memory serves, suit was thrown out- but still, the fact that people think that way is appalling. I help with, or more often ride in, a little competitive trail ride in the neighborhood every fall- course is flagged, people are given maps, you can’t get lost in this park anyway- and yet. People get lost, and complain that it’s management’s fault. Sigh.
Flash back to Tevis, early 1980s, one-eyed horse won it twice, rider apparently in plain old English saddle, my kind of gal:
http://simplymarvelous.wordpress.com/2007/06/13/blind-in-one-eye-fritz-wins-famed-tevis-cup-twice/
I see that the Tevis web site has an expression of condolences, and the finishers are posted, 51% completion rate including four junior riders:
http://www.teviscup.org/the_ride/the_ride_list2009finishers.html
Every horse death at or associated with an AERC ride is investigated by the AERC. The findings are published in the AERC official publication, Endurance News.
The AERC rules states that all rides must be open to all horses that meet age requirements. Got to:
http://www.aerc.org - Membership - Rules and Regulations - Rules - to view the AERC rule book.
Ride managers may put a limit on NUMBERS of entries as long as that limit is publicized in the entry forms. They may not limit entries on any other basis, mileage, completions, etc. Horses deemed to be a danger to other horses or people can be disqualified.
The AERC National Championship rides is the one exception. Entries can be limited by mileage or placings in rides.
Bonnie S.
Thanks Bonnie.
I’d hate to see them limit the entries to rides based on qualifying rides, or whatever. I do think it should be up to the rider to decide whether his horse is up to the challenge. This is why I haven’t attempted the OD yet: haven’t had a horse I think could manage the terrain. Maybe next year, but not so far. I trust the vets to screen horses as they go through the ride to pull those who are not fit enough, or sound enough, to keep going.
For the record, I have not been trying to convince anybody that we should make the trail so safe that a miniature pony could do it pulling a cart, or any other exaggeration you want to come up with. I’d just like to know that that section has been thoroughly investigated and found to be safe by the ride organizer’s standards. Okay? I’ve already seen pics of portions of the ride that I wouldn’t want to attempt. That doesn’t mean I think others shouldn’t be allowed to do so. But I’d like to see the footing right there, where it happened, and hear what others who were there have to say about it.
So please stop filling in the blanks of what you think I mean, or taking it to some exaggerated conclusion. I’m not blaming anybody, and if you think I am, then that is a sign of how your mind works, not mine. If the ride organizers/investigators, whatever, decide it was a fluke, then so be it. If not, and they think that section of trail has become a problem, then I’d expect them to avoid that part. That’s it. No other agenda, no bubble wrap, no cake walks.
[QUOTE=Auventera Two;4283022]
I’m not issuing any kind of judgement on the rider or the horse or the accident. I wasn’t there. I don’t know what exactly happened any more than you do. All I’m saying is that if we don’t want to be in the limelight for killing horses, we better sit up and pay attention and not sweep it under the rug.[/QUOTE]
WE, We in the limelight, we as in who we? You we? Oh Please.
I agree absolutely with your premise that posters should respond to what is written without leaping to conclusions. I hope you will re-read some of your own posts and realize that it’s very much a two-way street.
