Ace or Dorm

[Simkie]

@gumtree if you are dispensing medication to a horse you don’t own, you are practicing veterinary medicine without a license. That’s illegal.

Sure, you may think it’s government overreach and dumb. But it’s still not legal.

This isn’t rocket science. Stick a needle in a horse that’s not yours? Are you a vet? Then no, you are not permitted to do that.

Here is the law specific to PA.

https://www.animallaw.info/statute/pa-veterinary-chapter-14a-veterinary-medicine-practice

Here’s all the stuff you are not permitted to do, because you’re not a vet.

10. “Practice of veterinary medicine” includes, but is not limited to, the practice by any person who (i) diagnoses, treats, corrects, changes, relieves or prevents animal disease, deformity, injury or other physical, mental or dental conditions by any method or mode, including the prescription or administration of any drug, medicine, biologic, apparatus, application, anesthetic or other therapeutic or diagnostic substance or technique, (ii) performs a surgical operation, including cosmetic surgery, upon any animal, (iii) performs any manual procedure upon an animal for the diagnosis or treatment of sterility or infertility of animals, (iv) represents himself as engaged in the practice of veterinary medicine, (v) offers, undertakes, or holds himself out as being able to diagnose, treat, operate, vaccinate, or prescribe for any animal disease, pain, injury, deformity, or physical condition, (vi) uses any words, letters, or titles in such connection or under such circumstances as to induce the belief that the person using them is engaged in the practice of veterinary medicine and such use shall be prima facie evidence of the intention to represent himself as engaged in the practice of veterinary medicine, (vii) performs diagnostic veterinary pathology, (viii) implants electronic identification, as determined by the board, upon any animal, (ix) renders advice or recommendation by any means, including the electronic transmission of data with regard to any of the above, or (x) removes any embryo from an animal for the purpose of transferring such embryo into another animal or cryopreserving such embryo, except it shall not be considered the practice of veterinary medicine when: (a) a person or his full-time employe removes or transfers an embryo from the person’s own animals for the purpose of transferring or cryopreserving the embryo so long as ownership of the animal is not transferred or employment of the person is not changed for the purpose of circumventing this act or (b) a person independently, with indirect veterinary supervision, implants any embryo into an animal.

[tabula_rashah]

@Simkie

@gumtree if you are dispensing medication to a horse you don’t own, you are practicing veterinary medicine without a license. That’s illegal.

Sure, you may think it’s government overreach and dumb. But it’s still not legal.

This isn’t rocket science. Stick a needle in a horse that’s not yours? Are you a vet? Then no, you are not permitted to do that.

Here is the law specific to PA.

https://www.animallaw.info/statute/pa-veterinary-chapter-14a-veterinary-medicine-practice

Here’s all the stuff you are not permitted to do, because you’re not a vet.

10. “Practice of veterinary medicine” includes, but is not limited to, the practice by any person who (i) diagnoses, treats, corrects, changes, relieves or prevents animal disease, deformity, injury or other physical, mental or dental conditions by any method or mode, including the prescription or administration of any drug, medicine, biologic, apparatus, application, anesthetic or other therapeutic or diagnostic substance or technique, (ii) performs a surgical operation, including cosmetic surgery, upon any animal, (iii) performs any manual procedure upon an animal for the diagnosis or treatment of sterility or infertility of animals, (iv) represents himself as engaged in the practice of veterinary medicine, (v) offers, undertakes, or holds himself out as being able to diagnose, treat, operate, vaccinate, or prescribe for any animal disease, pain, injury, deformity, or physical condition, (vi) uses any words, letters, or titles in such connection or under such circumstances as to induce the belief that the person using them is engaged in the practice of veterinary medicine and such use shall be prima facie evidence of the intention to represent himself as engaged in the practice of veterinary medicine, (vii) performs diagnostic veterinary pathology, (viii) implants electronic identification, as determined by the board, upon any animal, (ix) renders advice or recommendation by any means, including the electronic transmission of data with regard to any of the above, or (x) removes any embryo from an animal for the purpose of transferring such embryo into another animal or cryopreserving such embryo, except it shall not be considered the practice of veterinary medicine when: (a) a person or his full-time employe removes or transfers an embryo from the person’s own animals for the purpose of transferring or cryopreserving the embryo so long as ownership of the animal is not transferred or employment of the person is not changed for the purpose of circumventing this act or (b) a person independently, with indirect veterinary supervision, implants any embryo into an animal.

ha ha ha! according to this everyone on COTH is performing illegal actions “renders advice or recommendation by any means, including the electronic transmission of data with regard to any of the above”

I’ve given tons of injections- definitely more to other people’s horses than to my own including in PA at one of the US’s most prominent vet hospitals (where I was neither a vet or a tech).

[CFFarm]

@findeight

OP has a horse she only recently bailed out of a homeless situation several states away with a sketchy to non exsistant backstory and questionable handling skills. Assuming it’s this new horse, not the one she got semi feral that she’s had for three years or so and has worked hard to install good ground manners in,

Sometimes you have to choose between not tending to sore and abscessed feet on a horse you didn’t start and haven’t had long screwed up and possibly abused by somebody else or using one time chemical help to treat the feet and not get anybody stressed out or hurt. Horse won’t forget what it’s learned, get more scared or lose what confidence it’s built since arriving. Bad foot manners can be harder and take longer to school out, especially if the feet hurt. Heck even a well trained horse can get touchy about having sore feet handled.

Use the dorm gel. Easiest, I think, in this situation. I never had any issues with Ace in any barn I was in but it’s not as effective IM or orally. the dorm gel probably isn’t as effective either but it’s pretty easy to administer if you are at home and can time it to be in full effect when the farrier starts. And with a smaller horse you got a better chance of staying on target… might want to give some Bute the night before too for discomfort both during and after the work.

Of course she should do what’s necessary to stay safe. As I said “once the feet are caught up” which means tended to. I’m sure she is installing good manners and standing for shoeing and medical treatment should be job one.

[RoahsGirl]

@enjoytheride

My mare has had some issues with the farrier due to her having some abscesses and not wanting anyone near her feet and I’d like to order some mild acting sedatives to get her through the shoeing process.

I can order either Dorm gel or compounded Ace from my vet’s pharmacy. Which do you suggest?

I’m considering the compounded Ace in case my other half needs to drug a horse. He’s not comfortable with injecting horses or drawing up drugs with a needle.

I recently used the Dorm gel this past NYE due to people living right behind my pasture setting off crazy amounts of very loud fireworks.

I know, just as with people, each horse can react differently to a sedative and some are more “light weights” than others. That said, I ended up having to give the Dorm after my boy was already very worked up (I didn’t think people would be starting lots of fireworks while it was still daylight outside and had planned to give it to him right as it was getting dark if needed). Because he was so worked up, he was also being a pain about letting me give him the Dorm and I know some of it did not get under his tongue. Despite those two things, it kicked in, in around 30 minutes and lasted for almost 2.5 hours (this result was for a full tube of Dorm and he weighs approx around 1200lbs and is a Thoroughbred).

I was very pleased with the results of it and woudn’t hesitate to use it again if I needed to.

I would recommend wearing some disposable gloves, however, my vet said the biggest concern with Dorm is the mucous membranes, so really be sure not to get it in your eyes, nose or mouth if you use it.

I was so rushed in trying to get my guy sedated before he ran through my electric fence or did something else to hurt himself that I ended up not having anything on that I had planned to wear.

I’m very lucky that he didn’t spit any of it back out at my face while I was dosing him.

Afterward, I did purchase one of these face shields they had at the hardware store for around $3 and plan to use that if I need to do any sedation in the future. The one I have is “Pyramex S1010 Polyethylene Face Shield”. It’s easy to grab and stick on and will protect the most important areas according to my vet.

If your other half needs to sedate your horse, I think the Dorm gel would be pretty easy to do for a beginner and if he has on gloves and a face mask, he should be safe doing it.

Hope this helps!