Can someone who has worked with a nutritionist shoot me a PM? I’d like to try FeedXL and try this whole food diet, but need a starting place. Thanks!
[QUOTE=Melyni;8217347]
Oh my, a grant application… I am trying to get one of the Universities interested in this project, since they have the man power and the equipment and the lab facilities to do a far better job than I can, on my own with just my trusty Abaxis!
Of course the sticking point is, as always, money!
MW[/QUOTE]
PSSM is a hot topic among stock horse breeds. I would try western state Universities with notable vet schools like CSU, etc., who get grants from AQHA yearly for just such research studies.
Here are lists of past grantees and grants: http://www.aqha.com/Foundation/Content-Pages/Equine-Research/Funded-Grants.aspx
[QUOTE=Candle;8218116]
Can someone who has worked with a nutritionist shoot me a PM? I’d like to try FeedXL and try this whole food diet, but need a starting place. Thanks![/QUOTE]
Well I am a nutritionist, and formulating a diet based on oats, alfalfa and a good quality vit/min supplement is not hard.
If you would like I can help you.
Whereabouts in the country do you live?
What kind of hay do you feed or have available to feed.
What breed or type of horse and what kind of work are they doing?
What are your goals with the feed?
MW
[QUOTE=Melyni;8217354]
[QUOTE=Dune;8216041]Thank you for sharing your experiences, I appreciate that. Yes, even when I spoke with Dr. Valberg at U of M, she recommended Purina products over my “whole foods” approach. And when I started a thread awhile back about it, I got the comment that diet would be better than what I’m doing. But I crunched the numbers, and while it would make my life a whole lot easier, I’m still not convinced it’s the way to go.
Hmm, what numbers did you crunch? As in, how did you decide that your diet was better?
Did you have the ingredients analysed or did you use the nutrient tables?
How did you balance the minerals and how did you know which and how to change?
I ask because I am interested to know what is behind the “whole Foods Diet” thingy, and how people work out just what should be in a whole foods diet!
I work in this area and I know the computer time and brain power plus the cost of analysis that goes into formulating a ration and I wonder just how you guys do it.
MW[/QUOTE]
Very similar to piedmont’s approach, which is why I included her post. Early on, I worked with a nutritionist, spoke with different vets including Dr. Valberg, but also the nutritionists at Platinum, Purina and the vet who makes the Adeptus products (and a few others that I’m sure I’m forgetting now as it’s been awhile). I, too, wanted to avoid soy so that means most ration balancers were out. I don’t need “extra” calories or “extra” (unwanted!) sugars, so I’m just trying to keep things pared down. I don’t have the ability to have the hay tested as it’s a large boarding facility and our hay changes often, unfortunately. I did have a problem early on with a nutrient deprived foal who was Vit E & Selenium deficient and this led me to check those levels as well as mineral levels on a couple others. The others were always fine and I’ve stopped checking as they’ve been fine for years now. It’s not so much that I thought my way was “better”, rather than the one suspected PSSM was finally doing well and I didn’t want to upset the apple cart and change things. My current questions about ALCAR are more to see if that’s the key that unlocks him being able to progress in his training, if he’s reached his limit OR if I need to explore other “issues”. (In other words, is it really now his hocks or stifles that need injecting versus the muscles…and yes, a vet is involved)
[QUOTE=piedmontfields;8217475]Well, I’ll offer my experience, although I am not Dune 
-
I worked with an equine nutritionist to get guidance on options. I wanted a whole food diet that was low in sugar and higher in fat, and with sufficient protein and energy for a fairly hard-working horse who is a hard keeper. I also elected to avoid soybeans as an ingredient. Some of the reason I changed diets is that my whole boarding barn changed their feeding approach. I did not crunch numbers personally, although I did test hay and gather some inputs (blood tests).
-
Why is the diet better for my horse? IME, it is because we have 1. No more PSSM symptoms. 2. Good weight/muscle and a gleaming coat, and most of all, 3. No more hoof abscesses! It is quite possible that another diet could achieve these outcomes, but I am happy that this is working.
-
I do use tables (Feed XL) to track her diet.
-
If I had serious concerns about deficiencies, I would do more monitoring through blood tests, but I am satisfied with feeding a basic vit/min supplement in addition to her whole food rations. Some folks who have more control over their hay source or who are dealing with major deficiencies due to their environment will do a customized vit/min supplement.
Hope that is helpful.[/QUOTE]
Very similar, as posted above, although I do not use FEED XL.
[QUOTE=Melyni;8218347]Well I am a nutritionist, and formulating a diet based on oats, alfalfa and a good quality vit/min supplement is not hard.
If you would like I can help you.
Whereabouts in the country do you live?
What kind of hay do you feed or have available to feed.
What breed or type of horse and what kind of work are they doing?
What are your goals with the feed?
MW[/QUOTE]
Get your own darn thread, Melyni, LOL!!! (I see you did) On a serious note: If you’re willing to give me some input as well, I’d love to hear your thoughts via PM perhaps? :-)))
[QUOTE=Dune;8218734]
[QUOTE=Melyni;8217354]
Get your own darn thread, Melyni, LOL!!! (I see you did) On a serious note: If you’re willing to give me some input as well, I’d love to hear your thoughts via PM perhaps? :-)))[/QUOTE]
Sure, you can PM me if you prefer, or just give the info and tell me what you are aiming for. It’s not secret, or magical. It might take some trial and error research. I have no problem answering nutrition questions, that’s what I do for a living!
Answers are free, correct answers a dollar and answers that make sense are 5 dollars!
MW
[QUOTE=Melyni;8218814]
[QUOTE=Dune;8218734]
Sure, you can PM me if you prefer, or just give the info and tell me what you are aiming for. It’s not secret, or magical. It might take some trial and error research. I have no problem answering nutrition questions, that’s what I do for a living!
Answers are free, correct answers a dollar and answers that make sense are 5 dollars!
MW[/QUOTE]
Fair enough! 
To get this back on original topic, I’m also wondering: Is all ALCAR or acetyl L-carnitine created equal? Does it matter where you purchase it or what brand?
[QUOTE=Dune;8219972]
[QUOTE=Melyni;8218814]
Fair enough! To get this back on original topic, I’m also wondering: Is all ALCAR or acetyl L-carnitine created equal? Does it matter where you purchase it or what brand?[/QUOTE]
ALCAR and Acetyl-L-Carnitine are one and the same. Different sellers might make the preparation differently, but the basic active ingredient is the same.
For example, I slightly flavor ours and put in an anti caking agent called sodium zeolite which stops it from absorbing moisture from the air and turning into a solid lump.
Other will treat theirs differently probably.
MW
I’m using Alcar on a younger horse that’s worked a fair bit, and also on a horse that had exercise intolerance issues due to Afib.
Both get other supplements as well however, but I feel the ALCAR to be of benefit. Since I started 7 yr old on it we are able to get away with stronger & longer training sessions.
They get about 5,000mg which I get from Nutrabio.
This study is recent re carnitine & alcar on muscle stamina in animals. Granted a mice study, but nevertheless interesting.
http://www.cell.com/cell-metabolism/abstract/S1550-4131(15)00270-3
I give it to my horse. Even though I have never had him officially ‘tested’, he was showing symptoms of PSSM. I simply began treating him/feeding him as though he had it. This included adding L-Carnitine to his supplements. I feel that it makes a big difference. Last year, I ran out of it and did not re-order. Some of his symptoms returned; mainly, slight muscle cramping and he would sort of ‘dip’ down on his hind end a few times during work, it almost felt like he stepped into a hole. So, I ordered more and within 10 days the symptoms were completely gone. I know this is not a mere coincidence as I have taken him off it more than once only to find I needed to put him back on it. I do not feel it is anything that could cause any harm. I purchase mine through Uckele. I am very happy with the quality of their products and their service.
http://equine.uckele.com/single-ingredients
Also, Dr. Eleanor Kellon, staff DVM for Uckele, as well as well respected author, nutritional researcher for the Horse Journal, suggest is for the PSSM horse as well as horses with other metabolic issues. You can find her input on the subject under the Q&A portion of Uckele’s website, under the question asked by ‘Sanna’…just scroll down til you see the question regarding boswelia.
I feed my pssm gelding 2 tbsp of alcar a day. I get it from bulk supplements through amazon
