Action on the mouth when a horse is "on the bit"?? Uncomfortable?

[J-Lu]

To me:

Vaquero horses are Iberian horses. They hold themselves in a very different way than say, warmbloods or QHs. There’s no comparison between these three general categories of horse in how they will want to hold themselves and use themselves.

The bit and size of the bit are very different for individual horses. Some horses go well in, say, a Dr. Bristol. When a properly fitted Dr. Bristol was introduced to my mare, she hated it because she had a fat tongue. She hung on fat bits. She objected to single joint snaffles. She went best in a Sprenger Training bit (they no longer make) at 14mm (which is considered a thin bit, but for her particular Trak small mouth, it fit her mouth well) and has 2 joints. It is designed to lay across the tongue. Her double bit included a similar snaffle. It was technically too long for her mouth, but it allowed me to really move this simple bit in her mouth and she responded very well.

My current Westfalen gelding also had a relatively small mouth and goes well in this Sprenger 14mm , 3-joint bit. I started him in a fatter bit and he hung on it, Lordie!

[J-Lu]

@alibi_18

7 is for PSG/Inter.
Higher is 8 years of age.

The bit in the Xray doesn’t seem to be well fitted at all; hanging too low and « on the bit »? I doubt so… Last time I checked, no one were taking Xrays while riding.
So… Pictured while someone was pulling the reins of a horse at stand still?

Most horses on this schedule are lame at 12.

[alibi_18]

@J-Lu

Most horses on this schedule are lame at 12.

And you have proof of that?

:rolleyes:

[SuzieQNutter]

@lorilu

And not jsut a long time. I do not think horses can be trained to that point of self carriage WITHOUT spending some time leaning on the bit and using the rider to find his balance as he develops the strength to carry himself. After all, they naturally go around with more than half their weight on the forehand - not on the haunches as we want!!

Horses learn so much faster than riders.

Horses will only lean if taught to do so. A horse that starts with a good rider never leans, as they are taught correctly from the first step.

[Wanderosa]

@SuzieQNutter

Horses learn so much faster than riders.

Horses will only lean if taught to do so. A horse that starts with a good rider never leans, as they are taught correctly from the first step.

True. Plus, as my trainer is always quick to point out, horse leaning on you = pulling match with 1000+ lbs animal.

[J-Lu]

@alibi_18

And you have proof of that?

:rolleyes:

Yeah. Most of us do.

[belgianWBLuver]

@J-Lu

Most horses on this schedule are lame at 12.

Although this is an ambitious schedule for a PSG or GP horse, it is not impossible. If the animal receives pristine care during this time in the form of "thalasso thérapie " INO, spa treatment for their spine, legs, musculature. They can do it. The larger barns, ie Carl Hester, Uta Graf, Ingrid Klimke, etc provide this care because, finacially, they can, and they recognize the importance. Thier horses, in general, go the distance.

I do not train in an aggressive format thus allowing my equines to condition more gradually. However, I totally understand the goals of the BNTs as long as they put their horses well being first. Progression varies with different equines but in general I see a horse doing quality canter changes at 7 or 8, diagonalization (half steps) at 6 or 7, really light quality collection at 7 or 8, piaffe- passage at 9 or 10, pirouettes beyond 10.
Before the age of 7 doing quality walk, trot, canter with good lateral movements. I do not teach canter changes til the horse can do excellent simple changes in straightness and responds to the lightest simplest aides of the core and a light leg. Shoulder in at all three gaits before a horse is asked to learn movements that require more extreme hind end strength.
Hilda Gurney’s articles in Dressage Today, later reprinted USDF magazine are a good reference.

[J-Lu]

@belgianWBLuver

Although this is an ambitious schedule for a PSG or GP horse, it is not impossible. If the animal receives pristine care during this time in the form of "thalasso thérapie " INO, spa treatment for their spine, legs, musculature. They can do it. The larger barns, ie Carl Hester, Uta Graf, Ingrid Klimke, etc provide this care because, finacially, they can, and they recognize the importance. Thier horses, in general, go the distance.

I said most, not all. Virtually unlimited funds for vets and farriers (and world class riding/training) helps. It doesn’t protect a horse from injury-some can’t recover despite the $$$. That’s physiology. MOST people don’t have the resources of Carl Hester, Uta Graf and Ingrid Klimke. That said, some Olympic level riders push horses too much, and those horses get injured and moved past. Spa treatments, $700 farriers, all the stem cell treatments in the world don’t help these horses. Many (not all) trainers at the high levels have their own business/professional success prominent in decision making. Not all. Owners and trainers keep their profile if their horses win/are competitive at FEI/GP and sell the ones who aren’t. They rarely keep the horses who aren’t moving forward unless they are very successful GP horses who are retired. Even in that case, some don’t keep them.

Lets not deny the fact that many of the horses pushed hard as youngsters are lame at 12. Despite the vet care.

[SuzieQNutter]

@J-Lu

I said most, not all. Virtually unlimited funds for vets and farriers (and world class riding/training) helps. It doesn’t protect a horse from injury-some can’t recover despite the $$$. That’s physiology. MOST people don’t have the resources of Carl Hester, Uta Graf and Ingrid Klimke. That said, some Olympic level riders push horses too much, and those horses get injured and moved past. Spa treatments, $700 farriers, all the stem cell treatments in the world don’t help these horses. Many (not all) trainers at the high levels have their own business/professional success prominent in decision making. Not all. Owners and trainers keep their profile if their horses win/are competitive at FEI/GP and sell the ones who aren’t. They rarely keep the horses who aren’t moving forward unless they are very successful GP horses who are retired. Even in that case, some don’t keep them.

Lets not deny the fact that many of the horses pushed hard as youngsters are lame at 12. Despite the vet care.

Many of the horses not pushed as youngsters are lame at 12 as well, despite the vet care. Just look at all the threads started on this forum with lame horses.

One of the reasons that we do dressage on a horse is to prolong their life. It has to do with them not dragging themselves forward with their front feet as the do in nature. I have had dressage horses since I was in my teens. Touchwood all have been sound, but I have not reached the Grand Prix so I probably don’t count, however I have had lessons on Grand Prix horses who were in their twenties.