Added grain, decreased interest in hay

[Pehsness]

Maybe this is something normal/obvious I haven’t experienced before…

14 year old gelding normally eats so. much. hay. I’ve never weighed it because it’s free choice (his weight remains good) but he eats a lot. 4 - 6 full hay nets per 24 hour day.

I’ve just added 5 lbs of a senior horse ration to make it easier when we go away and get a farm sitter. Previously he ate two meals of soaked hay cubes and a ration balancer or vit/min supplement (appropriate amount for weight).

It’s been years since I’ve fed any kind of bagged grain. I’m satisfied with the quality of this one, but was surprised to see the reduction in hay consumption. Is it possible the grain is providing that many extra calories? As an example, this mornings two nets are maybe half full, and in a couple of hours I’d usually be putting out three more, which would be gone by morning.

Same source of hay.

[JB]

Any chance you have a hay analysis for this batch of hay?

One potential reason is the hay is not nutritious enough, so he’s eating more to make up for that. In people that can translate to “full but not satisfied” and can actually lead to weight gain. Over-fed but under-nourished.

If that’s the case, then the 5lb of the Sr might be providing more nutrients, or a better ratio, than the balancer, and it’s definitely more nutrients than the v/m supplement.

Another possibility is the Sr is high enough sugar that the meal is creating extra leptin (satiety hormone) which is telling him “I’m full”, so he’s decreasing the amount of hay he wants to eat.

Or, if that 5lb is a single meal, he may simply not be hungry enough for a while and doesn’t dive back into his hay as soon, or with as much gusto, as on the other 2 regimens.

[enjoytheride]

Senior is a complete feed, with the hay built in, so if it’s the same hay he’s probably filing himself up on the grain.

[Pehsness]

no analysis. It’s first cut grass hay (we’re in SW Ontario). Decent quality, not a lot/any alfalfa, but soft and not cut late at all. There is second cut available, but only in large squares that are a lot heavier so I’ve been sticking to first (we pick up a new round every 3 weeks or so and I pull hay off to fill nets).

I break it up in to 2 meals.

I don’t believe it’s a “complete” feed meant to replace hay? Here is from the Brooks website:

Brooks Senior Description Brooks Senior is formulated with enhanced levels of protein, highly digestible sources of fibre and a controlled starch and sugar (NSC) level. Brooks Senior is generously fortified with minerals and vitamins including chelated (organic) minerals which have improved absorption in a less efficient digestive system. Added fat in the form of flax, rice bran and soy oil raise the calorie density while beet pulp, soy hulls and alfalfa meal ensure a solid fibre intake for a healthy lower gut. The addition of a prebiotic and a probiotic ensure maximum utilization of nutrients to meet the needs of most aged horses. Brooks Senior supplies total nutrition in a palatable textured format that horses take to readily and stay on while outperforming similar competitive products. Brooks Senior can be moistened for older horses with poor teeth or horses prone to choke. Feeding Suggestions Feed horses according to level and type of activity and to maintain ideal body condition Mature Weight 900 lbs. (400 kg.) 1100 lbs. (500 kg.) 1300 lbs. (600 kg.) Idle horses 1.75 - 2.75 kg. 2.25 - 3.50 kg. 2.75 – 3.75 kg. 3.85 - 6.00 lbs. 5.00 - 7.75 lbs. 6.00 - 8.25 lbs. Light work 2.25 - 3.25 kg. 3.00 - 4.50 kg. 3.60 - 5.50 kg. 5.00 -7.25 lbs. 6.50 - 10.0 lbs. 8.00 - 12.00 lbs.

I was suspicious of the increased nutrition. I’ve had such poor experience with a previous horse who couldn’t tolerate any bagged/processed grains that I avoided it with this guy as well for a long time. But if he slows down his voracious consumption while maintaining weight and decent musculature, I’m all for it. Hay will always be free choice.

[JB]

Many Sr feeds are also complete feeds, meaning their fiber content is high enough (18/20+ or more) to supply all the fiber, albeit short-stem fiber, a horse technically needs if he were to eat that as his sole source of food. From this description I can’t tell if this senior feed is a complete feed.

Because it’s short-stem fiber, not gut-filling long-stem fiber, I wouldn’t think the fiber was the cause of this, but I wouldn’t swear to it.

[carman_liz]

@Pehsness

no analysis. It’s first cut grass hay (we’re in SW Ontario). Decent quality, not a lot/any alfalfa, but soft and not cut late at all. There is second cut available, but only in large squares that are a lot heavier so I’ve been sticking to first (we pick up a new round every 3 weeks or so and I pull hay off to fill nets).

I break it up in to 2 meals.

I don’t believe it’s a “complete” feed meant to replace hay? Here is from the Brooks website:

Brooks Senior Description Brooks Senior is formulated with enhanced levels of protein, highly digestible sources of fibre and a controlled starch and sugar (NSC) level. Brooks Senior is generously fortified with minerals and vitamins including chelated (organic) minerals which have improved absorption in a less efficient digestive system. Added fat in the form of flax, rice bran and soy oil raise the calorie density while beet pulp, soy hulls and alfalfa meal ensure a solid fibre intake for a healthy lower gut. The addition of a prebiotic and a probiotic ensure maximum utilization of nutrients to meet the needs of most aged horses. Brooks Senior supplies total nutrition in a palatable textured format that horses take to readily and stay on while outperforming similar competitive products. Brooks Senior can be moistened for older horses with poor teeth or horses prone to choke. Feeding Suggestions Feed horses according to level and type of activity and to maintain ideal body condition Mature Weight 900 lbs. (400 kg.) 1100 lbs. (500 kg.) 1300 lbs. (600 kg.) Idle horses 1.75 - 2.75 kg. 2.25 - 3.50 kg. 2.75 – 3.75 kg. 3.85 - 6.00 lbs. 5.00 - 7.75 lbs. 6.00 - 8.25 lbs. Light work 2.25 - 3.25 kg. 3.00 - 4.50 kg. 3.60 - 5.50 kg. 5.00 -7.25 lbs. 6.50 - 10.0 lbs. 8.00 - 12.00 lbs.

I was suspicious of the increased nutrition. I’ve had such poor experience with a previous horse who couldn’t tolerate any bagged/processed grains that I avoided it with this guy as well for a long time. But if he slows down his voracious consumption while maintaining weight and decent musculature, I’m all for it. Hay will always be free choice.

Without reading all the nutrition I will say this, and this is just me thinking human wise but still…you added a senior feed, senior feeds are normally higher in fat and lower in sugar, many ir and cushings horses are older and on the senior feeds so that makes sense right? It is essentially a form of the keto diet for horses is how I think of it lol. When you added a senior feed, the fat from it gives him the satiety. (sp??) Therefore he feels full longer. Kinda like when people go keto and dont have the sugar spikes and drops and carb cravings, so that will naturally help him feel full longer. It doesn’t sound like a bad thing at all really! 😊😊 Especially if he still is eating his hay and stopping when hes full! My fat a&& pony would eat all day, he has nooo stop I’m full reflex!!!

[Pehsness]

ah, fascinating JB! I didn’t know that. They don’t suggest anywhere that it can replace hay, but it does have 20% fibre.

Guaranteed Analysis Crude Protein (min.) 14 % Crude Fibre (max.) 20% Crude Fat (min.) 8.0 % Calcium (act.) .90 % Phosphorus (act.) .55 % Sodium (act.) .40 % Vitamin A (min.) 12000 IU/kg. Vitamin D (min.) 1200 IU/kg. Vitamin E (min.) 300 IU/kg. Copper (min.) 50 mg/kg. Manganese (min.) 125 mg/kg. Zinc (min.) 170 mg/kg. Iron (min.) 150 mg/kg. Iodine (min.) .5 mg/kg. Cobalt (min.) * none added .5 mg/kg. Selenium (min. added) .5 mg/kg. NSC (reduced) Included Nutritional Enhancements Biotin .35 mg/kg. Thiamine 12.5 mg/kg. Riboflavin 14 mg/kg. Omega 3 fatty acids 1.1% Omega 6 fatty acids 3.9 % Lysine .9% Saccharomyces boulardii Saccharomyces cerevisiae

I’m liking it so far. Last time we went on vacation I came home to a feed bin full of uneaten supplements because I normally added them to soaked cubes and that wasn’t being done. So I’m hoping this will make everyones lives easier and the horse gets better nutrition.

[Pehsness]

@carman - I’m hoping it’s a good thing, was just so surprised to see it. I always feel like I’ve failed somehow because my horses can’t exist and thrive on hay alone (tongue kind of in cheek there, but grain of truth)

[carman_liz]

@Pehsness

@carman - I’m hoping it’s a good thing, was just so surprised to see it. I always feel like I’ve failed somehow because my horses can’t exist and thrive on hay alone (tongue kind of in cheek there, but grain of truth)

Don’t feel bad!!! My mare couldnt even when she wasn’t toothless. It also depends on the breed, higher strung or leaner by nature means you have to supply more! Stocky easy keepers, not so much. Same when your horse has a higher metabolism when younger, then they even out n then as they age they need more help. My mare would not finish her soaked senior feed and soaked timothy n beet pulp pellets if there was good grass in the field she was in, she just got full so we would lower her feed so we wouldn’t waste feed, feed =money!!! At least he is not over eating n getting fat or making himself sicky!!!

[Pehsness]

Update… it was short lived Maybe a brief spell of warmer weather, who knows, but they’re back to eating hay like no other horse I’ve ever seen.

[candyappy]

4-6 hay nets in a 24 hour period isn’t that much. My guys can each empty 1 in no time :winkgrin:

Glad he is back to normal. Sometimes a big diet change can throw them off a bit while they adjust.

[Amy3996]

It sounds like your horse just has a higher metabolism/larger appetite than others. As long as he’s at a healthy body condition, I wouldn’t worry too much about it. My moderate keeper gelding can easily finish off a 40-50lb bale of hay in 24 hours. If the weather’s really cold or he’s working a lot, it can increase from there.

For reference, what kind of hay nets do you use? Might also be worth investing in a cheap luggage or fish scale and weighing a few nets to get a better idea of how much is being consumed by weight.

[Pehsness]

@Amy3996

It sounds like your horse just has a higher metabolism/larger appetite than others. As long as he’s at a healthy body condition, I wouldn’t worry too much about it. My moderate keeper gelding can easily finish off a 40-50lb bale of hay in 24 hours. If the weather’s really cold or he’s working a lot, it can increase from there.

For reference, what kind of hay nets do you use? Might also be worth investing in a cheap luggage or fish scale and weighing a few nets to get a better idea of how much is being consumed by weight.

I used to have a fish scale to weigh hay. I need to hunt it up again.

The hay nets are just cheapies. 2" holes I’d guess. They’re more for ease of keeping hay off the ground in bad weather and peeling it off the round bale. I probably wouldn’t be using them if I had small squares - I’m not really interested in the “slow feed” aspect as much as not wasting hay.