Adding modified to an existing venue

[CindyCRNA]

. We are a smaller-ish venue usually having 110 at our recognized. I am taking over as secretary next year and have ideas, one of which is adding a modified. We are currently starter to Prelim. We have a jump graveyard and some talented professional jump builders. We also have a water complex that I want to bring up to speed but that is another thread. I was reading on the other thread that some felt that a modified division didn’t bring in any additional riders which somewhat makes me sad. We are wanting to plump our venue up numbers wise.

I feel the fact that dressage and stadium is on grass is a negative. There is also talk of adding a level above prelim (1*?). To me, if you are going to run a 1*, sand would be nice or is grass common in the upper levels in other parts of the country?

[Highflyer1]

A 1* is a Modified CCI. A 2* is a Prelim CCI. Adding FEI levels adds a whole new level of complexity and expense so I would be wary of doing it without a ton of rider support to make sure it’s worth it. Adding regular Modified would be a lot simpler but it’s hard to know how many entries it would bring in without knowing your area very well… It’s very popular here in Area 2 (although the 1* is not, likely because it’s not necessary for qualification for a 2*).

[Gardenhorse]

I think the comment about Modified not bringing in new riders was in Area II where there are already a fair number of events with modified. If you would be one of the only events in your area with Modified, I think it would bring in new entrants.

Several of the smaller venues in MD/VA run through Prelim on grass - it’s certainly not out of the ordinary.

[findthedistance]

I volunteer at a venue in the heart of Area 2 that runs all 3 phases on grass, starter up through I. There are plenty of other local event options, but it’s known to be a good venue for a lower-level move-up and people turn out. This fall there were 250ish entries. For comparison, Area 2 Champs (venues are <30 min apart) drew 315ish a month later at a venue with nice fiber footing.

I think it’s all about finding your niche. Are you the friendly event where newbies and move-ups will have a great experience? Are you the place with the best competitor party? Are you the venue with the best footing? The only venue offering modified? (Adding FEI sounds like a huge headache to me, but if that’s what your market wants…)

[beowulf]

@CindyCRNA

I feel the fact that dressage and stadium is on grass is a negative

Here in Area 1, for years most recognized events hosted dressage and stadium on grass. It has only been in the last ten or so years that I’ve seen a trend towards competitors pushing organizers for venues with a dressage and SJ ring.

Grass should be a non-issue on all three phases, but I do hear from time to time people complaining at various venues about how they didn’t do well in dressage or SJ “because it was on grass”.

Have you heard from your community that they are unhappy with SJ and dressage on grass?

In that regard, I’m a real hard-ass and have zero empathy with this crowd. I did dressage on the grass at Stoneleigh in the fall… 'Nuff said. (for those that aren’t familiar with Stoneleigh: it was an A1 event that ran spring, summer, fall. The courses were always great for the level and it went over some good terrain and woods. In NE in the fall, it would get muddy especially because a huge portion of the XC was backed up to a major interstate and when it rained the water runoff would leach into the field. Competitors wouldn’t go to it because they didn’t want to “slog through mud” on all three phases – aaaand, we lost the venue because of these competitors… So… Yeah. ).

I would not change any thing your first show. I would use your first show as a gauge to measure the pulse of your community and figure out if Modified is needed in your area/market. Some FB posts or email blasts would help gauge rider responses as well – but I think that social media makes everyone say they are interested and/or going and then when the day comes there are crickets.

I agree with Findthedistance – try to find your niche crowd. Modified would be a welcome addition here in A1, but in NoVA and MD and even NC and SC there are so many modified options that I think adding another purely for the attendance would not draw the crowd one would hope. IIRC, you are out west, right?

[CindyCRNA]

No, we are smack dab in the middle of the country. Queeny Park in St Louis has a modified but no higher. They are 4 hours away and usually only have 3-4 modified riders at a show. another issue is we have a second horse park locally that has permanent stalls, a nice water complex and a large sand arena for stadium and dressage. The park where we are at will not allow any permanent structures so we are always temp stalls and grass.

[CindyCRNA]

And while getting a 2* together may be a huge undertaking, we certainly have the riders here who will tackle it and it will be the only one in the midwest (?). The powers that be who run it are motivated to do it. I feel morally we also need a modified. I am a lowly secretary but I am enthusiastic and committed to this venue and am friends with the group running it.

[SeeSpotEvent]

Before I moved to Area III two years ago, I was in Area VIII (Indiana). I would absolutely have traveled extra for a modified; being on grass would be fine. There are so few venues doing it (IEA, Queeny Park are the only two I can think of) and the big KHP events haven’t added it. I know a lot of folks that are looking for a path to move up in that area and it’s hard to find a “friendly” prelim, so another modified would be great. For a 2*, a lot of folks plan on Hagyard in October but that is probably out of range for the “west” midwest. FEI would be a lot harder than modified I would think but I’ve only helped run a National (USEA) HT, so don’t know about FEI organization.

[Trak_Eventer]

I know we talked earlier today, but I 100% would love a Modified at the event!

[CindyCRNA]

And I got your great text! I will pass on to the powers that be. Thanks again!

[Jealoushe]

If you build it…they will come

[Carried_Away]

There has been talk of FRVPC adding Modified in Area IV as well in addition to the 2*. I definitely think they are both good things to offer for the area even though it obviously means more $$ and work to put on.

[CindyCRNA]

Where in area 4?

[Carried_Away]

Barrington (suburb of Chicago) - FRVPC HT

[ACMEeventing]

Just saw this thread. I was the XC Coordinator at our local venue when Modified was added. There is a lot to consider.

Expense: If you plan on having Modified obstacles and reduce the sharing between Training and Prelim, you will have happier competitors but the cost goes way up (think about all the additional stakes and flags and manpower as well).

Revenue: Our schooling series, which is exceptionally popular and draws HUGE numbers, had a total of 45 modified entries over the course of 6 shows, and mostly the same riders. The four USEA shows had 66 entries over just 4 competitions. The first two competitions (SPHT and Carolina had 18 and 29 respectively, so possibly a warmup for the Prelim horses or people qualifying for AEC).

I can’t find earlier numbers, but I recall the first few competitions had 2-4 entries. We were like “WHAT HAVE WE DONE???” Entries have grown, though, and I think it is a great addition. Just a lot more work.

To those that have issue with doing dressage or stadium on the grass . . . . maybe try table tennis instead.

Adding FEI is a VERY expensive process (as I’m sure you’re aware). Extra TD’s, judges, etc. And if the show get cx’d for any reason, all those peeps still get paid.

Happy to chat with you offline if you like. Good luck and let me know how it goes!

[Potato]

Adding FEI would be a massive undertaking, and in 2021 Catalpa had 14 preliminary entries. I’d caution against adding in a huge expense without the rider base in the area. Queeny Park did this a while ago when they added intermediate without the riding base, the expense nearly put the event under.

[beowulf]

@Potato

Catalpa had 14 preliminary entries.

For… the whole year?!

[Potato]

Yep, for the whole year. They run one event, in 2021 it was July 31-August 1 and there were 14 preliminary entries at that horse trial. Fox River Valley is slightly better attended, a month earlier (June 24-27) with 17 FEI entries and 12 preliminary entries.

All other Area IV events had under 10 preliminary entries per horse trial in 2021.

[CindyCRNA]

They only had 1 recognized per year. I think 14 prelim sounds like a great number! This year they have 2 recognized but cut the number of entries allowed to half (!) and added a modified. Rumor is they did it because it became impossible (almost) to get temp stalls brought in.

[beowulf]

It wasn’t a criticism. I don’t live anywhere near Catalpa, so I really have no idea and was just trying to get a better feel of attendance.

Prelim has long been a labor of love in my area. 14 entries doesn’t even cover what it costs for fence decorations and prep.