Adequan and Hocks? Help!

[CliffordsMama]

[QUOTE=beau159;8827344]
I would still keep your horse on Adequan, but you are going to need to inject on a regular basis.

Fusing hocks HURT. They are painful. And there’s nothing you can do to stop the pain unless you inject or give something like Previcox.

One could also argue that Adequan will slow the fusing of the joint (which you don’t want, because you want it to fuse and be done with!), but with that said I still kept my Red on Adequan while his right hock was fusing.

I only injected when he told me he needed it and was sore again, but it usually was about 3 months. Being in North Dakota, I was able to “get by” only injecting him once, giving Previcox at the end of the season, and then having the winter off.

But if your horse is fusing, your horse is fusing. That’s the source of his pain. Inject if he needs it. Either that, or turn your horse out to pasture until he’s done fusing … which can be years (or never at all, for some horses).

You can look into surgical options to fuse the joint, but those don’t always work either.

What has your vet said further about his fusing hock?[/QUOTE]

Thank you beau159 I appreciate the feedback. And I think you are right about having to inject. I called my vet this morning to ask for him to come out and go over him again and inject if necessary. If I can get away with doing injections twice a year, I am OK with that… but any more then that would make me question the longevity of my horses show career. But at the end of the day, whatever or however he is happiest is fine with me. He’s a lifer in my barn. I think what I struggle with the most is I know my horse has HUGE potential to do really well and move up the levels, and it is killing me to know that he’s not feeling up to par and hurts.

Vet hasn’t said much about the fusing. I am going to ask him more about it when I see him this week.

[CliffordsMama]

[QUOTE=TWH Girl;8827732]
If normal injections are not lasting as long as you’d like, I would consider IRAP. I have not had much success with Adequan helping with my guy’s hocks. He gets injections prn and Legend every month.[/QUOTE]

Thanks! I’m not as familiar with IRAP, but it sounds like its something worth looking into.

[Graymaresrule]

[QUOTE=TWH Girl;8827732]
If normal injections are not lasting as long as you’d like, I would consider IRAP. I have not had much success with Adequan helping with my guy’s hocks. He gets injections prn and Legend every month.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=CenteredRiding;8827691]FWIW -

There’s a thread from 2012 (marked it a while back when looking for solutions myself)-by owners reporting better results with Pentosan than with Adequan.

http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?349789-Tell-me-your-Pentosan-success-stories![/QUOTE]

Sophie is one of the Pentosan success stories.

[Pocket_Pony]

If the injections aren’t working such that you would have to have them done so frequently, then IMHO it is time to stop injecting the joint. When I was considering joint injections for myself, I was cautioned that they may initially relieve the pain but they may not. If they did relieve the pain, it wouldn’t last forever. The more times I had to have them done, the more damage I would actually be doing to the joint in the long run. One time for relief can be okay. Multiple times with diminishing returns is bad. You are not going to “save” this horse’s potential career with continuously injecting his joints.

When we had a horse with bad hocks (actually one bad hock from an old accident), we actually did Adequan first, before injecting the joints. We could tell a difference and he was more comfortable, easier to canter, more forward. When the continual progress slowed and then the Adequan didn’t seem to be doing it anymore, we opted to inject the hocks once. But since we didn’t see that much of a difference, we retired him.

He did end up having neuro issues and Previcox helped immensely with that until it didn’t work anymore.

Speaking for Mr. PoPo’s experience, having bone-on-bone joint pain HURTS like a mofo and the pain permeates every part of your life. Speaking for my own issues, chronic pain really sucks and joint pain can make you especially iffy because you don’t know if the next step is going to be the one to make you lock up. Or if you are locked up, asking your body to do something that you know is going to hurt is going to create huge compensations somehow.

I think people who haven’t gone through pain issues themselves just don’t understand how it hurts.

I’m sorry your horse is hurting. I’m glad he has a home with you regardless. Were it my horse, I’d either give him time off for a while and turn him out as much as possible and let him just move around and see how he feels in the spring, or I’d just ride him at the walk and be happy with that for now.

[CliffordsMama]

[QUOTE=Pocket Pony;8831884]
If the injections aren’t working such that you would have to have them done so frequently, then IMHO it is time to stop injecting the joint. When I was considering joint injections for myself, I was cautioned that they may initially relieve the pain but they may not. If they did relieve the pain, it wouldn’t last forever. The more times I had to have them done, the more damage I would actually be doing to the joint in the long run. One time for relief can be okay. Multiple times with diminishing returns is bad. You are not going to “save” this horse’s potential career with continuously injecting his joints.

When we had a horse with bad hocks (actually one bad hock from an old accident), we actually did Adequan first, before injecting the joints. We could tell a difference and he was more comfortable, easier to canter, more forward. When the continual progress slowed and then the Adequan didn’t seem to be doing it anymore, we opted to inject the hocks once. But since we didn’t see that much of a difference, we retired him.

He did end up having neuro issues and Previcox helped immensely with that until it didn’t work anymore.

Speaking for Mr. PoPo’s experience, having bone-on-bone joint pain HURTS like a mofo and the pain permeates every part of your life. Speaking for my own issues, chronic pain really sucks and joint pain can make you especially iffy because you don’t know if the next step is going to be the one to make you lock up. Or if you are locked up, asking your body to do something that you know is going to hurt is going to create huge compensations somehow.

I think people who haven’t gone through pain issues themselves just don’t understand how it hurts.

I’m sorry your horse is hurting. I’m glad he has a home with you regardless. Were it my horse, I’d either give him time off for a while and turn him out as much as possible and let him just move around and see how he feels in the spring, or I’d just ride him at the walk and be happy with that for now.[/QUOTE]

Thanks! and you make some really great points that I appreciate. He is turned out 24/7 which has really helped him overall. I am anxious to see what the vet sees tomorrow when he goes over him again.

[swgarasu]

I never noticed a dramatic difference with Adequan- it was more that I would give it and my horse would be a little better, and sort of maintain for a while. Legend, given IV, had a more dramatic impact. We did it for coffin bones, not hocks, and eventually injected the coffin directly on the foot that had an issue (cortisone I think, not sure if there was HA also) and that helped for a couple of years.
Later, after some kind of “not really sure what the deal is, but vet thinks probably soft tissue and wants a $3500 MRI” I opted to give the horse a year off because that was cheaper, we were selling a house, moving, and buying a house, and it was most likely the treatment he would have recommended.
Next year the horse was sound and didn’t get anything for 3 years. We’ve been training hard the last couple of years (2nd-3rd level, often riding about 5x a week).
Now she’s not lame when trotting around at a working gait, but in lengthenings trainer noticed she was not even, so at age 14 we injected the hocks for the first time and that’s pretty dramatic (from what he sees, and I noticed she is more sassy).
Horse has always had turnout 24x7.

[beau159]

[QUOTE=Pocket Pony;8831884]
If the injections aren’t working such that you would have to have them done so frequently, then IMHO it is time to stop injecting the joint. [/QUOTE]

On that topic, just another point I want to mention about my own horse. When we discovered he had a fusing hock, it was already pretty advanced. The first injections helped tremendously but he still wasn’t 100% pain-free. So I did supplement with Previcox.

Thankfully, my horse has now fully fused and shouldn’t need the injections anymore at all, but it is possible that injections won’t help 100% when they are fusing – especially if the process is farther along. Sometimes too, there becomes a point w hen the joint space is too small due to the fusing and they are unable to inject that joint at all.

So use a good lameness vet to your advantage to help decide how to manage your horse.

[mvp]

[QUOTE=jherold;8827083]
I found the most improvement 1 week after the final loading dose, so you might not have seen the maximum effect yet. Also, some horese do well on Adequan, some on Pentosan, some on polyglycan and some on legend. Unfortuately, it’s an individual thing and you just have to experiment. My current horse showed no improvement on pentosan or polyglycan, but is doing great on IV legend.[/QUOTE]

To add to this, my vet has said to expect to see a difference about 2 weeks/3 or 4 doses into the series.

Just one more data point for you. I haven’t gotten there yet with this horse. I’ll try to remember to report back about what actually happens.

FYI, we are not trying to treat hock arthritis with Adequan. (Horse in question has some pretty gnarly neck arthritis.) But I will let you know if/when I see improvement in the other joints this is for.

[crthunder]

Hi CliffordsMama,

(Warning long)
Been there, still doing that… I have a 14 year old OTTB that I now show FEI dressage, but it has been a bumpy road with soundness since he was 7. Initially the soreness was caused by poor footing and lack of quality turn-out which have long since been remedied. Here’s my timeline with Red:

Age 7 he had his hocks injected the first time. He felt like a million bucks too much and in that deep, uneven footing despite my request to go slow and easy he over did it, tore a small hole in his inner thigh muscle. Finally get that squared away, and he showed signs of right front suspensory soreness… back off again. Then it is left front tendon. We have not been able to work in an indoor (in midwest January) and it looks like the BO is not going to deal with the problem, I give notice. Fast forward over a year before we do hocks again. Then the right suspensory finally needs some therapy. Then the hocks start on every 6-7 months. I am freaking out because even my Arab I had in his 20’s only needed hock injections every few years.

Per my vets, Red does not have a high pain tolerance and the work is tough. We have finally come up with a good plan.

He has had x-Rays done, nothing but “normal” arthritic changes. He is on an oral joint supplement (Choice of Champions Super Joint Solution because it is the only one he will eat) but that I’m sure is more for my peace of mind. He gets chiropractor/accupuncture (dvm) once a month. He has hind shoes and my farrier is great about keeping an eye on his feet so that he doesn’t go too long. I make sure he gets Legend before every horse show (per several vets it’s best impact is about four days, then it has been metabolized). We have started pentosan now because adequan didn’t show a big difference last year when we did the full course.

For work load what I find is key is keeping up the variety. We never do more than four “hard” days (collected work, etc) a week, and rarely three in a row. He always gets one day completely off, and one or two days that are light hacks (outside as much as possible, jump little logs, etc). He is on half-day turn-out.

When we do our hard work days I also vary the hard work we do each day. One day I will focus on lateral work, another on transitions, another will be test practice, etc. And I use the swimmer theory of “tapering” before a show. So for example this month we are headed to regionals (!!!) and show Saturday and Sunday. Friday we arrive at the show and he will get a long walk around a light ride to just check forward/back/sideways. Thursday before we leave will be a trail ride or hack in a snaffle outside. Wednesday will be his day off. Tuesday before the show will be his last “hard” work day. Then I know all his gears are good to go but not worn out

If you have any questions or want info or exercises I’m happy to share!
Becky

[CliffordsMama]

Thank you Becky! You and the fellow COTHer’s are giving me hope As you know, it is a frustrating process, and its really encouraging that despite the set backs you experienced you have been able to successfully move up the levels

When I switched my guy to 24/7 turn out the idea was to keep him moving and loose as possible. And I do think that is helping. You make really interesting points about the work schedule. I do ride often and try to change up the routine frequently- but I may need to do a better job with it. He is the type of horse that when he is feeling comfortable, he is really consistent with how he goes- which I think is a great thing and may allow for us to have more “fun” rides versus drilling tests, training, etc. The footing at the previous farm we were at was pretty deep and in the long run it probably did more harm for him. We moved to my fiancé’s farm last March and we are lucky to have a variety of places to ride from grass to light sand, to even taking a spin around the 1/2 mile dirt track. Clifford sounds like your Red and doesn’t handle pain very well. He’s a “delicate gelding” some days haha.

In a way, I was beating myself up for wasting the time and money on the Adequan. But I really do feel like it helped the trot work. I am anxious to have the vet go over him again tomorrow and see what he thinks. I will pick his brain alittle more about the pentosan. Thanks again for your input

[crthunder]

I guess I should say that it isn’t that the adequan was totally useless, but I don’t think it did a lot for his hock arthritis. I think it may have helped him feel better overall so I may do another round of seven (since I bought a 10 shot bottle and have only used it for one shot) at three months post hock injections. Like your guy I can feel the hocks losing their “strength” at the canter. When the changes aren’t happening it is time. Red’s one good (and bad) thing about his super work ethic is that he will give 110% all the time so if we need an easy day we can’t touch the hard stuff bc he gets frustrated that we are t doing “all the things” full tilt. He lives hill work and a good gallop. In fact both times we have gotten over 70 at FEI our last ride at home was a gallop across the hay field trail!

Becky