Adequan and Hocks? Help!

[CliffordsMama]

So I know this may seem like ANOTHER Adequan tread…but here goes nothing.

Background:
I have an 8 yr old OTTB. Could possibly be one of the laziest horses I know. Currently schooling first level, showing training level. Over the past few years we have been having on and off issues with hocks and stifles and the early start of arthritis. Stifles and hind end have really strengthened this past year thanks to a tremendous amount of transitions, cavetti’s and hill work. Because of all of that riding this year to strengthen behind, and me asking for more of him this year, we have started to have more issues with hock soreness. In past he has had hock injections- lower joint only and they seemed to last about a year. They seems to work really well for him and we saw quick improvements. Now this year, hock injections only lasted about 4 months. My guy is a bit pea hearted and the tell tale sign of when he is in need of some work again is he will start to really to give issues at the canter. Hesitant for the transition, some times down right refuses and plants his feet, maybe throw in a buck and when we do finally get going he will start off extremely pokey. But then loosens up and goes how he should.

He was recently seen by a highly recommended acupuncture vet and also our regular chiropractor and they both recommended we try a loading does of Adequan before hock injections again. We have one more shot left of our loading dose. Overall we have been having some improvements since starting adequan- but its just not as dramatic as I was expecting. Trot work has improved big time and he is reaching under himself like I haven’t seen him do in the last year or so. But our canter is still a struggle. Struggle to get going, and struggle to stay going.

So my question is- What is the typical time frame that we should start seeing bigger improvements from the Adequan? Has anyone been successful with switching to Adequan loading dose twice a year versus hock injections? Am I missing something and should be considering another option?

Thanks in advance!

[findeight]

Well, what do the X rays show and how recent are they? That stuff gets really expensive if there’s something specific wrong it’s not going to do a thing for. It treats the symptoms, not the cause. Won’t do a thing for spurs, chips and old fractures except temporarily reduce inflammation or replace joint lubrication while draining your checkbook.

What was the original DVM diagnosis on the hock joint and stifle issues based on initial X rays?

Oh, to the original question, Adequan reduces inflammation in the horse-as does Pentosan which is less pricey and easier to get. Joint injections usually contain a steroid to reduce inflammation within the joint and HA to temporarily lubricate it, as the joint continues to lose the ability to self lubricate, they need to be given more often. Many owners give Adaquan AND inject the joints, depends on what X rays say the best course of treatment is,

[Smthn_Like_Olivia]

I have heard great things about Adequan, but haven’t tried it yet personally. I have an 18yr old mare I brought back into work after a year and a half off who we soon discovered had stifle and arthritis issues. Recommendations were to keep her in steady work (I ride 5 days a week typically) and I had her on a Senior Smartpak joint supplment, but improvement was SLLLOOOOWWW. Finally, I spoke to my vet again and he prescribed us Previcox just a few ago. The change is pretty remarkable and I’ve heard that Previcox in addition to the Adequan can be very helpful as well.

I’m a fairly green rider, so I won’t post here, but if you’d like to see before and after video, OP, you can PM me and I’ll send you a link. There is a HUGE difference.

[findeight]

Previcoxx is more on the line of a painkiller, easier on the tummy then Bute, different action then Adequan, HA and steroid. May not be able to compete on Previcoxx depending on where you compete. It also only relieves the pain and does not address the cause of it.

[CliffordsMama]

X-rays are clean. No chips, old injuries, etc. for the hocks and no issue with the stifles as in OCD’s or anything else abnormal. Original DVM says that the hocks were really dry the last time we injected. No really explanation for it. Did notice the start of fusing on the left hock but not on the right. Injected with HA . His diagnosis was to do the strengthening work to build up the stifles and overall hind end. And continue with as needed maintenance for the hocks.

From my understanding and the main reason why I tried Adequan was because it is proven to help stimulate cartridge repair as well as help reverse the joint disease process. So overall I felt it was a better “long term” try versus the band- aid of injections.

[jherold]

I found the most improvement 1 week after the final loading dose, so you might not have seen the maximum effect yet. Also, some horese do well on Adequan, some on Pentosan, some on polyglycan and some on legend. Unfortuately, it’s an individual thing and you just have to experiment. My current horse showed no improvement on pentosan or polyglycan, but is doing great on IV legend.

[Hej]

Not to be a pessimist, but if your horse has been dealing with hock/stifle issues fora while he may have developed back soreness as a consequence of protecting his other joints.

Since you have a vet, chiro and acupuncturist I’d assume at least one of them looked at his back, but maybe take another look? Especially since the trot is better, maybe something in the canter motion is bothering him.

Note - I am NOT a vet or other horse health professional, so these are just random thoughts from someone who has never laid eyes on your horse.
I do hope you fine an answer!

[CliffordsMama]

[QUOTE=Hej;8827093]
Not to be a pessimist, but if your horse has been dealing with hock/stifle issues fora while he may have developed back soreness as a consequence of protecting his other joints.

Since you have a vet, chiro and acupuncturist I’d assume at least one of them looked at his back, but maybe take another look? Especially since the trot is better, maybe something in the canter motion is bothering him.

Note - I am NOT a vet or other horse health professional, so these are just random thoughts from someone who has never laid eyes on your horse.
I do hope you fine an answer![/QUOTE]

Good input Hej. Yes, while we have been working on diagnosing the issues, trying other things. The idea of possible back issues did come up. His hips were out on each side, the left poll and the one side of the wither. He was adjusted and is adjusted every couple of months just for maintenance. Saddle was also adjusted and custom fitted for him to fix any of the issues with the wither… the joys of having a HUGE shark fin TB :lol:

[CliffordsMama]

[QUOTE=jherold;8827083]
I found the most improvement 1 week after the final loading dose, so you might not have seen the maximum effect yet. Also, some horese do well on Adequan, some on Pentosan, some on polyglycan and some on legend. Unfortuately, it’s an individual thing and you just have to experiment. My current horse showed no improvement on pentosan or polyglycan, but is doing great on IV legend.[/QUOTE]

Thank you jherold! I appreciate your feedback. I think overall I just need to wait it out a little longer and see what we get. If only horses could talk and tell you exactly what is going on!!! :lol:

[findeight]

Legend is the brand name of injectable HA. So it helps with joint lubrication, doesn’t do anything for anything else. My last horse did better on the Legend since it was lack of joint lubrication due to age and use. Another did well on the Adequan with navicular and high mileage issues. Sure there are any actual studies on Adequan being proven to replace joint cartilage??? There are some relating to HA and joint lubrication and they use it combined with the steroid in human joint injections.

You might want to experiment and see what works best but that can get pricey. If your hock injections are only lasting a few months, you need to look at other factors as well. Like footing, farrier and what you are asking the horse to do-he may need a different job.

If the horse is not responding to the exercises to improve back end strength over a significant oeriod if time? Maybe it’s a conformation problem or something is wrong higher up like SI trouble or previous injury in the pelvis or hips or something is wrong in the spine, neck or front end affecting the horses ability to use the back end properly?

Full workup is often the best way to go to avoid wasting money treating what’s not wrong allowing what is wrong to get worse.

You gave any pictures or video you could link to?

[CliffordsMama]

[QUOTE=findeight;8827111]
Legend is the brand name of injectable HA. So it helps with joint lubrication, doesn’t do anything for anything else. My last horse did better on the Legend since it was lack of joint lubrication due to age and use. Another did well on the Adequan with navicular and high mileage issues. Sure there are any actual studies on Adequan being proven to replace joint cartilage??? There are some relating to HA and joint lubrication and they use it combined with the steroid in human joint injections.

You might want to experiment and see what works best but that can get pricey. If your hock injections are only lasting a few months, you need to look at other factors as well. Like footing, farrier and what you are asking the horse to do-he may need a different job.

If the horse is not responding to the exercises to improve back end strength over a significant oeriod if time? Maybe it’s a conformation problem or something is wrong higher up like SI trouble or previous injury in the pelvis or hips or something is wrong in the spine, neck or front end affecting the horses ability to use the back end properly?

Full workup is often the best way to go to avoid wasting money treating what’s not wrong allowing what is wrong to get worse.

You gave any pictures or video you could link to?[/QUOTE]

Adequan is proven to help simulate cartilage repair, not replace it. He is responding to the exercises and have REALLY REALLY strengthened up his hind end especially stifles. It is the hocks that are now the issue. But to compare the horse to last year, his top line and overall muscle is a huge improvement.

He has had the full work up and its really the same results multiple times. Weak hindend that needed the strengthening which we did/ are still doing, early arthritis in the hocks, clear xrays, back is good, saddle fits, feet are solid- front shoes and barefoot behind. And overall there are no other issues.

[Sandy_M]

Can’t speak to Adequan because I’ve never used it with any of my horse(s), but when I had my old horse’s hocks injected, it was with Legend (hyuralonic acid) - from ages approx. 13.5 to 19 when his hocks completed fusing - I did it ever 5-6 months, not a year apart. You ask about Adequan - I’m not sure, when you say his hocks have been injected did you mean Legend AND Adequan, or just Adequan?

[CliffordsMama]

[QUOTE=Sandy M;8827214]
Can’t speak to Adequan because I’ve never used it with any of my horse(s), but when I had my old horse’s hocks injected, it was with Legend (hyuralonic acid) - from ages approx. 13.5 to 19 when his hocks completed fusing - I did it ever 5-6 months, not a year apart. You ask about Adequan - I’m not sure, when you say his hocks have been injected did you mean Legend AND Adequan, or just Adequan?[/QUOTE]

Hi Sandy M- Our hock injections were done a year apart because that was how long they were lasting and he was staying comfortable. But over time, the injections do not seem to be lasting as long. I did not inject the hocks with Legends. They were injected with HA. Not Legends specifically, but I understand that the make up of Legends is primarily HA. I choose to try hock injections because I am looking for a longer term help and Adequan loading dose ( 1-4-7 method) has some great studies on helping horses for long term and helping to repair cartridge damage and with the degenerate joint disease- both which cause arthritis, etc. My question to the group was based on their experience what is the average time it takes for the Adequan to really “kick in” after the series and they saw the biggest improvement. Again, I am looking to not have to do injections every few months because I am aware of the issues and more permanent damage it can cause. My guy is 8 and I want him to be comfortable and happy for a long time.

[Sandy_M]

Interesting. As I said, my guy got Legend from ages 13-19 (when he didn’t need it anymore because hocks had fused and were pain free). Never had any adverse effects. I could always tell when he needed “doing” again because while he never actually limped, his stride behind would get shorter and shorter (he was showing 2nd/schooling 3rd Level). He was converted from formerly being my H/J-low level eventer after he had a hind leg fracture in a barn accident (from which he, obviously, completely recovered). If you’re already doing HA injections (whether “brand name” or not), then you’ve got that covered. And yes, after a while the injections don’t last that long. We went from 6 months, to a couple of years later, 4 months. Do your ex-rays indicate at what rate the hocks are fusing? If there’s arthritis, then obviously the Adequan is needed, but once the hocks fuse they usually do better. (Guess fusing isn’t a big hope to hold out, though, considering my horse was about 18 before his hocks completely fused.)

[exploding_pony]

First, I’m really sorry that this is happening. It’s horrible to deal with, especially with a younger horse.

I am not a vet, but as I understand it, there is no way to rebuild cartilage, that’s why you want to prevent it from breaking down. Once it’s gone, it’s gone.

Adequan is pretty much a preventative as I understand it. I would be surprised to hear that it fixed something dramatically. When I have used it, I noticed if I didn’t give it, if that makes sense. In other words, you didn’t see some dramatic improvement, but it slowed the decline.

Legend can be used IV or in the joint.

I would hate to see an 8 yr old horse permanently on previcox, but it can absolutely make a horse much more comfortable.

Couple of ideas:

• What is your footing like? I personally believe that most people seriously underestimate the impact of bad footing on soundness. I make a point of riding my horses only in good footing and have been known to scratch at shows when I’m not comfortable with the footing. It’s just too much to risk.
• Have you considered dialing back the hill work? I get the concept here, but if you are pushing it too much, you might be making things worse instead of better.
  -How often do you ride? IME horses like this do better with 30 min of work 6 days a week than 60 min of work 3 days a week.

Again, I’m not a vet, these are just my personal experiences.

[CliffordsMama]

[QUOTE=exploding pony;8827259]
First, I’m really sorry that this is happening. It’s horrible to deal with, especially with a younger horse.

I am not a vet, but as I understand it, there is no way to rebuild cartilage, that’s why you want to prevent it from breaking down. Once it’s gone, it’s gone.

Adequan is pretty much a preventative as I understand it. I would be surprised to hear that it fixed something dramatically. When I have used it, I noticed if I didn’t give it, if that makes sense. In other words, you didn’t see some dramatic improvement, but it slowed the decline.

Legend can be used IV or in the joint.

I would hate to see an 8 yr old horse permanently on previcox, but it can absolutely make a horse much more comfortable.

Couple of ideas:

• What is your footing like? I personally believe that most people seriously underestimate the impact of bad footing on soundness. I make a point of riding my horses only in good footing and have been known to scratch at shows when I’m not comfortable with the footing. It’s just too much to risk.
• Have you considered dialing back the hill work? I get the concept here, but if you are pushing it too much, you might be making things worse instead of better.
  -How often do you ride? IME horses like this do better with 30 min of work 6 days a week than 60 min of work 3 days a week.

Again, I’m not a vet, these are just my personal experiences.[/QUOTE]

Thanks Exploding Pony. We usually ride 5-6 days a week for about 30-40 minutes. The hill work is pretty minimal and we do more cavetti’s for strengthening. I agree with you on the footing. I typically ride in a grass dressage ring or a ring with sand footing. The sand is not to deep and I feel like it give a good cushion.

I am not thinking that the Adequan would fix things dramatically. But I was hoping based on the vet, acupuncture vet, and chiro feedback that the Adequan would give us the same/similar results to hock injections…But without the as invasiveness of injecting the joint. And really the idea was because he’s young and I am trying to prolong the joints as long as I can without a sticking more needles in them. I’ve never done the Adequan 7 shot series, so that is why I was asking how long it took for some of the other users to see an improvement or difference in their horse.

Is it right or wrong way of thinking? I am not sure. But I guess time will tell. And yes it is frustrating to say the least.

[exploding_pony]

I think you are on the right track. Conservative is always the best way to start. The adequan may be doing more than you think.

[beau159]

@CliffordsMama;8827022

Did notice the start of fusing on the left hock but not on the right.

I would still keep your horse on Adequan, but you are going to need to inject on a regular basis.

Fusing hocks HURT. They are painful. And there’s nothing you can do to stop the pain unless you inject or give something like Previcox.

One could also argue that Adequan will slow the fusing of the joint (which you don’t want, because you want it to fuse and be done with!), but with that said I still kept my Red on Adequan while his right hock was fusing.

I only injected when he told me he needed it and was sore again, but it usually was about 3 months. Being in North Dakota, I was able to “get by” only injecting him once, giving Previcox at the end of the season, and then having the winter off.

But if your horse is fusing, your horse is fusing. That’s the source of his pain. Inject if he needs it. Either that, or turn your horse out to pasture until he’s done fusing … which can be years (or never at all, for some horses).

You can look into surgical options to fuse the joint, but those don’t always work either.

What has your vet said further about his fusing hock?

[CenteredRiding]

FWIW -

There’s a thread from 2012 (marked it a while back when looking for solutions myself)-by owners reporting better results with Pentosan than with Adequan.

http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?349789-Tell-me-your-Pentosan-success-stories!

[TWH_Girl]

If normal injections are not lasting as long as you’d like, I would consider IRAP. I have not had much success with Adequan helping with my guy’s hocks. He gets injections prn and Legend every month.