Can you video her rides? I remember watching some videos when I was having some serious confidence issues and remember thinking, “he barely did anything!” when at the time I thought “he is about to buck/bolt/rear (whatever the demon inside my head was saying).”
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IMO it would be in your lane to ID the unacceptable behaviors for the client and your expectations about those. “Sometimes you do XYZ and that is neither safe or acceptable. I need you to quit doing XYZ in order for our training to progress. Can you do that?”
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I’d let her go too. I certainly would not want to trail ride with her either. Wouldn’t be worth the anxiety or the hassle. She sounds like she’s setting herself up for injury. Trail riding alone, and just riding alone in general takes a certain amount of flexibility and ability to roll with the punches so to speak. Being proactive rather than reactive. Also being able to keep your **** together if something unexpected happens. Woof.
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Well, I’m just gonna toss out a few thoughts. I’ve been teaching riding for about 35 years…
It really sounds to me like you’re in over your head. Anybody would be, unless they have training in behavioral anomalies. This is not about learning to ride horses. This person has some behavioral challenges that make it very hard for her to be appropriate around horses.
You could put it to her that you don’t feel you are the right instructor for her. You could be honest, and explain that before she is going to be successful with Horses, she must master some emotional regulating skills. That is not your specialty… And you don’t want to take money for something that you’re not qualified to teach.
Depending on your area, there might be some equine assisted psychotherapy programs. It’s rather surprising how many there are right now. This sounds like a more appropriate way to go. Frankly you are putting yourself in a very vulnerable position, since this woman’s inability to regulate her actions may result in injury for her.
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She is shy about being video’d or photographed. I have video’ed her to show her she is actually skilled/capable. The tripping/startles steps aren’t each ride, so I couldn’t count on a video catching either event. Video’ing the trip would likely be very useful, but it would be difficult to do.
I HAVE told her that she might be better off with a different coach, but honestly, I have no idea where she would go, and she isn’t interested in leaving - she doesn’t see an issue. It’s hard to kick out a client with two horses who lessons regularly despite the stress. I really expected this to be our last year together. I HAVE also tried to encourage to go trail riding (on a trail trained horse) to see if she even LIKES trail riding…but she is dragging her feet in doing that.
We have equine assisted therapy. One of my former students actually does it, but her program is for kids that have experienced trauma.
She did suffer a traumatic riding incident as a child - the lessons were supposed to distract her from the fact her dad was dying. Interestingly, SHE didn’t tell me about the incident, but rather her mother when up for a visit. So I am more thinking PTSD, but after 50+ years of marinating.
@Sdel she just says that his spooks jar her back. She doesn’t get unseated or off balance. I think her fear of injury is part of her overreaction. Kind of like sleeping funny causes injury at our age…it just doesn’t take much for her to feel it in her back. (she regularly goes to chiropractors, massage, oesteotherapists)
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I was wondering because they way you described her jerking made me think of the Moro reflex. It is the one where babies jerk their arms and cry when they lose their sense of support. It usually goes away as one grows and has enough strength and motor control to move on their own but many nuero atypical people still have it and other primal reflexes. In older kids and adults the Moro reflex results in essentially a panic response. It doesn’t always take a lot of motion to set it off either.
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Could she possibly be on the autism spectrum? She sounds very much like a co-worker that I have who we highly suspect is on the autism spectrum.
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Another thought, OP, many neuro atypical people also have problems with what they call interoception. They basically don’t understand or properly respond to their bodies internal sensory stimuli. They might think they are putting in extraordinary physical effort but really they are not doing anything. Or they might feel more or less sensory sensation in various parts of their body that overwhelms their nervous system.
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Just a couple of thoughts here, and in addition to everything else mentioned.
Try setting the tone in all your interactions with ALL clients. Make that tone a positive one. When clients blame horse, call it names or blame horse for anything? STOP them right then. Ask them why that happened, what could they have done? Turn that negative response into a thoughtful positive one that turns it into a teaching moment instead of just a negative experience. Make that a standard for all clients.
Have seen this approach work many times but its not easy and some clients will want to argue. In that case you do not engage in that negativity but try to redirect client into learning something.
You know, down here in the States we have a National chain of pest control outfits, begins with an “ O”. One of their ads has a gal complaining about ants in the kitchen and hiring a Pro to get rid of them….an Irish Dancer to stomp them out.
As entertaining as Irish Dancers are, it’s the wrong Pro. Don’t be the Irish Dancer here.
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@findeight really nailed it here. Creating a culture of kindness to the horses in your program is a great idea- and I’m of the crowd that says, yes, SOMETIMES a horse is being recalcitrant, but it’s not because they’re being a jerk. It’s because they don’t understand or what we are asking is hard, and horses are naturally going to take the easy way. That’s not being an ass, that’s being a horse 
.
Riding instructors aren’t mental health pros in any sense, and it doesn’t matter if their client is autistic/ADHD/bipolar/whatever. Unless they’ve given you a diagnosis of themselves or asked for some accommodation, it’s dangerous to go internet diagnosing other humans. There are plenty of ways to make your program more inclusive to the neuro diverse, but try not to label someone - even with the intent to help.
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I think you deserve a lot of credit for trying to work with this client in an insightful way that will help her and her horses.
It sounds like you’ve already had several conversations (off-horse) about what you can and can’t do as an instructor, and that’s totally appropriate. It may be that you have to have additional conversations with her from time to time to discuss her progress (or lack thereof) and ways to move forward.
To me, it sounds like the rider is not only reactive herself, but she’s also maybe kinda scared. Not “OMG I’m gonna die” scared, but the kind of scared that comes from not feeling like you really know what you’re doing. So continuing to build competence (and hope that competence leads to confidence) is the way to go.
You’ve been doing ground poles. Well, maybe scatter ground poles throughout the arena (including several near where the horse routinely “startles”) so they’re not in a nice, predictable grid. Maybe set up some low cavaletti for them to walk and trot over. Get her off the horse part way through the lesson and have her hand-walk him over the obstacles. Get her to ride him with a hackamore or in a different style of saddle and to notice the differences in control and “feel.” Treat her like a Pony Club “kid” and try to ignore the fact that she’s older than you.
Maybe talk to her about wearing a riding vest. You don’t specify the nature of the traumatic episode that stopped her from riding as a child, but if it was a fall from a horse, she may have a deeply rooted fear of falling again. A vest might help some with allaying that fear.
Good luck!
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Why?
You’re not her full-time caretaker, you’re a Sometimes Riding Instructor.
What happens when she buys her farm and moves the horses?
Do you then go to her?
I’d direct her to the nearest Theraputic Riding or NAHRA program in your area.
Not all clients of these schools have physical disabilities.
Unless you have the same credentials as trainers in these programs you’re not going to fix whatever this woman’s problem is.
“It’s hard to kick out a client with two horses who lessons regularly”
Is she really just $$ to you?
If she is, is the stress (for you both) worth it?
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Its even harder to watch clients leave because of the negative influence of another client on instructor and overall barn atmosphere. Don’t think they don’t notice when your thoughts are dominated by a single time and energy sucking client.
Try putting the ball in her court when she gets upset “ Well, Sue, what could you have done to stop that from happening?” If that does not redirect her thoughts, you are the wrong pro for her.
IME, this kind of client, sooner or later, blames trainer for lack of progress and goes elsewhere on their own. Missed by nobody.
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I think everyone’s comments here come from a place of genuine concern for all parties involved, but it’s really impossible even for someone with a degree to make a diagnosis and treatment plan for a mental health condition based on an Internet report, or even just observing a riding lesson. Even some practitioners misdiagnose.
It’s also worth noting that therapeutic riding is different than general horse training–I know people who are certified in it, and it’s performed on specially trained horses. And usually the focus isn’t on the horse, but the mental and physical health of the rider. While here, it’s a more standard trainer-owner-horse relationship. So it’s not therapy, despite the OP’s very compassionate concern.
I’ll throw out that I once took lessons from a very capable trainer who was also a licensed therapist, but her therapeutic skills and her training skills didn’t overlap at all. In fact, she asked one rider who was on the ASD spectrum (diagnosed by a professional since the woman was very young) to leave the program because the rider would not listen to her while she was training. The trainer was a very old skool hunter instructor, “if I say do it in five strides, you do it in five and do it right,” and it just didn’t transfer well at all to the student’s needs, despite the fact that outside the riding ring the trainer was a counselor. I guess the two sides of her professional brains and personality were very compartmentalized. I have lots of riding nerves and anxiety and she got very frustrated with me and I had to leave as well!
So don’t beat yourself up OP. You can try reframing and focusing on positivity, but don’t feel and don’t try to completely rework your training style.
I’ll also note at another, rougher lesson barn I rode at, there was a woman who I was convinced had some sort of issue. Despite riding for more than ten years 2-3X a week, she hadn’t advanced beyond just walking and trotting, holding her reins with huge loops in them, and had to have diagonals explained every lesson. Even when not riding, she did things like not saying “door” coming into the arena, forgetting to get her whip every time and holding up the lesson to get it, coming late, and so forth. Yet, despite my suspicions she might have an issue, she apparently had raised a family, had a job, social life, exercised (biking), and on paper seemed very normal.
So one of the mysteries of horses is that people who might not have a clinical issue that impedes them in most spheres of life might still want to ride, even though they have mental challenges or personality challenges that can make riding and being around horses much harder than for the average person, and horses are hard even for very talented people. But they don’t necessarily have a mental illness in the DSM sense. I think because there’s such an obsessive focus in the media, and so many articles for armchair diagnoses, it’s tempting to get carried away.
Anyway, it’s something I’ve thought a lot about, since I’ve written about ASD and horses in other places! I would definitely have a think, though, OP, about not only your own mental health but the potential impact of the rider on other people at the barn.
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I would also add that even if she has a diagnosed mental disorder/ illness if you don’t have the training to deal with it it can be very detrimental to her if you continue to teach her. Everything you have said and done in this thread shows me that you have a good heart and have her best interest at heart, but sometimes you have to let people go because it is in their interest.
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She thinks she IS kind to her horse(s) - it really hurts her feelings when I explain otherwise. She doesn’t WANT to hurt her horse. In general she is a pleasant, quiet rider (quiet position) If she could stop pulling up on her gelding I think she would - it is a reflex. She rides when the arena is quiet, and doesn’t affect other people. She mostly just rides in lessons, rarely on her own.
I just need ways to bring her out of her meltdowns/ or “I can’ts”.
Kicking her out when she has nowhere to go would be an A-hole move. We are a smaller barn, and everyone knows everyone. I have kicked people out, but for things like being abusive riders/created an unsafe atmosphere for me/others. I do find her stressful to teach, but I think I am capable of learning/growing as a coach, I just need to find new techniques and was hoping to find some here. I AM NOT trying to “fix” her.
Today’s lesson on her old gelding went well. Thursday she wants to try to take her other horse down the driveway. She is quite excited about it. I am less excited about it. I told her it is only happening if conditions are good and the ring work goes well. I am pretty sure the horse will be ok, and I have ridden her down the road before (but years ago) I almost feel like “allowing” her to ride outside the ring might be a carrot to convince her to work on her emotions/focus in the ring. Maybe that is the key I have been missing. “You can’t canter today because you jerked on the reins when he startled” kind of motivation. That seems weird with an adult, but maybe that will work?
Her “trail” horse goes bitless, but she is resistant to try that with her old gelding.
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If you want a jumping off point you can read about Theory of Mind.
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I absolutely love the fact that you are doing everything in your power to make this work, but you are not an a**hole for doing everything in you can to have peace in your barn . This women could very well have a mental health disorder/ illness that makes it nearly impossible to control her emotions.
If you do want her to stay do you have a plan in place if those out of control emotions are directed at you or another boarder ? Do you have a plan in place if you unintentionally upset her and she leaves and tells everyone how horrible you where? If not you should probably think about getting those plans in place.
I am sorry if you think I might be dramatic but she reminds me of the co- worker I wrote about in my first post. Our supervisors think he is somewhere on the autism spectrum , and because of that a lot of things that go against policy are over looked. Most of the time my co-worker is a lovely person but if something upset him he can turn nasty to himself and others. The fact that my co-worker does not accept personal responsibility or know how to handle negative emotions makes it extremely difficult to correct a lot of situations that need to be addressed.
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The language we use influences our perceptions of a situation. And of course a situation influences our tendency to our default language.
The way we frame a situation in our heads, using language to construct the framework, drives how we react emotionally and respond in action (or not).
“kicking her out”, “nowhere to go”, “A-hold move” are your own mental constructs. That is how you are framing it. It reflects your frustration that you have not been able to progress your student as you wish. And that now you feel under more pressure, a deadline that you have bought into, to achieve a result you are not achieving now.
Others in this thread are framing it differently. You would not be “kicking her out”, you would be assisting her to a more productive and healing environment for her.
She does have somewhere to go. She and her therapist are the ones who need to design the best setting for her. From what you are saying, what is going on now may not be helping her progress that much. If a therapist helps make changes that would take a burden from your shoulders.
You are not doing anything “a-hole”. You are doing your best with what you know. You do care about this student. And her horses. And want to make the best decision for everyone. But you are excluding truly qualified outside help - help that might be the real answer to your questions. You won’t be an “a-hole” if you are following therapeutic guidance.
There are other ways to frame and describe the situation that offer you a better way forward. As you are thinking of the situation now, you are building a box in your mind in which you have few alternatives - and none that encourage this lady to go forward in a better-constructed environment.
*Maybe you and your student could schedule one exploratory meeting together with a professional therapist. Describe the history, the goals, and ask for and listen to an objective suggestion for a way forward.
I don’t know what’s best to do here. But like the others posting, what you are posting would give me more concerns, not less, for the the situation to go forward with you in charge as you are now.
You do not seem to want to look objectively at yourself and your own background in terms of the highly skilled level of support that this student needs. That you know you are not equipped to provide (otherwise you would not have posted here asking for more tools).
What you post strongly indicates that you are rejecting the input of a qualified, skilled professional therapist, on a human-to-human basis, not a website or text source – and that has been hard to understand in the context of doing the best for your student.
Would you suggest that a 2’6" lesson student should stick with their first instructor, who has spent their career focusing on new learners and low-level riders, to progress to Grand Prix? Do you feel that any student facing a significant challenge to meet their goals needs to seek a teacher and guide who is experienced and well-qualified at the level? A present, hands-on human guide, not an html page or youtube.
And you do not want to look at the potential downside for your student – a downside that may already be happening. Just from what you have posted here, you articulate the best intentions, and yet you are not doing her any favors. You seem to be more interested in maintaining control over her and her horse interest than you are in truly encouraging a different direction that she needs. Your point of view is coming across as being mostly about yourself and your own self-image. Not her best interests. But you seem to be reluctant to think about that possibility.
You’ve been doing your best with this lady for years. So it makes sense that you feel very invested in her. It can be very hard to let go.
But if letting go to a more skilled professional therapist meant that your student would be better able to control emotions and reactions, would you be willing to consider that? With or without horses - or with just the one most copacetic horse - or some modified, even minimalized horse framework. You might not be completely out of the picture, just in a different role in support of outside therapy, or something. If a therapeutic professional can show her and you another way forward, is that an option for you?
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I agree the symptoms presenting here are beyond the normal range of adult beginner nerves. And that the symptoms are going to make riding unsafe.
Riding is famously meant to be therapeutic on many levels and horses are said to be intuitive and patient with autistic people. But to be therapeutic, riding needs to happen in the right setting. The traditional riding lesson is a huge mismatch in methods and goals. A therapeutic program could help. Even just learning to do groundwork and be with horses is more useful than a traditional lesson
About middle aged people. Sometimes folks coped and presented well enough through young adulthood but get oddly addled in middle age. It could be a stroke or anxiety or mental health issues peaking as life slows down.
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