I am looking for a new saddle and adjustable tree saddles are right up my ally. I’ve been looking at the Toulouse saddles with the Genesis system. Currently I don’t own a horse but I ride multiple horses. What do you think are they worth it?
The thing to remember about adjustable saddles is that the only thing that adjusts, is the width of the gullet at the withers. The other important components of fit, the back to front curve of the panels, and the drop of the panels, do not change. So just altering the withers will not really make a perfect fit.
I found this video of the MT Genesis. It’s true that it does work differently than the other saddles with exchangeable gullets, and perhaps cranking in the width of the gullet at the withers might alter the drop of the panels and make the panels steeper, though I can’t quite tell from the angle of the filming here. Nothing of course will change the back to front curve of the panels, which are related to the shape of the basic tree. If you have a wool flocked saddle, the panels can be altered a little to fit. But MT as a French saddle presumably has foam panels, which can’t be re-flocked, though they may have a bit wider a fitting tolerance. You would probably still need to use a shimming system to make such a saddle fit multiple horses, unless you are lucky and a riding several horses with similar builds (like all tbs or all QHs).
The system looks easy to use, but I doubt that it is meant to be changed every day to fit multiple horses, the way you might change a girth, for instance. And when I see an adjustable tree that is this easy to alter, I have to wonder how sturdy it is, and whether it will tend to crank itself open during hard use.
would you expect everyone in the gym to wear the same shoe? work out in the same size shirt?
from what i have seen, very few saddles are more detrimental to a horse’s soundness and comfort than adjustable tree/gullet saddles… combine that with an owner who is attracted to them to cut the cost of saddle fitting and you end up with a very sore and unhappy horse.
and then you have MT saddles, which has a horrible reputation both on this forum and in many barns local to me.
[QUOTE=beowulf;8604270]
combine that with an owner who is attracted to them to cut the cost of saddle fitting and you end up with a very sore and unhappy horse.[/QUOTE]
Fair, but, speaking for myself, past interest in Collegiate Diploma and Bates with interchangeable gullets was rooted not in cheapness or a lack of appreciation for quality saddle fit, but rather in a need to fit a variety of horses “well enough” as I’m not yet fortunate to have found a long term mount of my own. I imagine this is true of others, too.
Like Beowulf, I’ve heard very mixed reviews (mostly negative) on the quality and craftsmanship inconsistencies of MT, but I do wonder, for example, about Dover’s new adjustable trees in the Circuit line-- a line I feel much better about than MT. My “for now” solution is an older Crosby in a Wide tree (more like a medium wide) padded up to suit most horses I’m on well enough. It’s worked well enough for me, for now.
I only looked at/sat in one in a tack store. They seem nice but they area bit heavy. (I’ve got a really broken body and can’t do heavy saddles. Well, I just don’t like heavy-ish saddles, besides that.) I’ve heard they don’t hold up that well but the leather was quite nice and it was really comfortable.
There are a lot of adjustable saddles on the market. They do only adjust the front but some have other good fit options such as being wool flocked, full front gussets, different rear gusset depths, etc. There is a use for them and they work great for some horses.
Thorowgood, Kent and Masters and others are ones to consider.
Please if you take anything don’t buy a MT the reason why some rave about them and some hate them is that they have ZERO quality control some may be fine and ok but others might fall apart. I have some friends who had them and they also seemed to be having back problems with their horse. You will never find a saddle that will fit every horse. There needs to be a middle ground.
man lots of negative about the MT I never knew that it would have them they look durable…What saddle brands do you recommended? I would like to test ride one before the final buy…also don’t want to spend an arm and a leg on one
What is your budget? If you’re not fitting a specific horse there’s a good suggestion above about getting a wider saddle and padding it to fit most horses. We have an adjustable tree, flocked Pessoa that we have been very happy with. The independent saddle fitter adjusts them. Purchased used, these won’t break your bank, but are not easy to find. Much nicer quality IMO than the MT (BTW Marcel Toulouse is a made up name for marketing purposes, not a “master French saddler” as some websites claim). Do you work with a trainer or saddle fitter who can help you come up with criteria to fit the horses you ride?
Another catch, don’t know if it’s true with the “rotate to fit” type adjustable trees, but the changeable plates (Collegiate, Pessoa, Bates) are not that easy to change. Like, it takes 10-15 minutes and your saddle feeling like it’s in pieces. Not something you’d want to do too too often. 
[QUOTE=mfglickman;8605382]
What is your budget? [/QUOTE]
Well if it is a good saddle that will last me for years and will hold up I would say $1,500
I had a Pessoa GenX XCH for a while. Between the gullets and a shimmable pad, it fit almost every horse I rode well enough to have a couple of fine rides. It happened to fit one horse I rode regularly pretty well, but others were just never quite right. I would say it fit best on horses that took the medium gullet, and the further I had to go on either extreme the more the fit would suffer.
IME, it’s a fine option (though not the only option) if you don’t know what you’re going to be riding regularly, but I’d get a shimmable pad too. I have no experience with the MT, but I can say the Pessoa was about what I’d expect given the price point (which was around $1500 new.)
Actually, I wouldn’t be in a big hurry to buy a saddle at this point in your riding career. That lots of lessons or a decent lease horse…and you did indicate recently that there are some things going on at work that hint at trouble ahead.
Id wait.
I picked up an almost new Collegiate Diploma for $800. It is wool-flocked so it offers more adjustability in the long term, and I use it with a shimmable ThinLine. For the small amount of money, I’m happy with it.
Changing the gullets is not quick or easy, so I wouldn’t want to do it often, but it is a nice option when you need it.
[QUOTE=SweetMutt;8605514]
I had a Pessoa GenX XCH for a while. Between the gullets and a shimmable pad, it fit almost every horse I rode well enough to have a couple of fine rides. It happened to fit one horse I rode regularly pretty well, but others were just never quite right. I would say it fit best on horses that took the medium gullet, and the further I had to go on either extreme the more the fit would suffer.
IME, it’s a fine option (though not the only option) if you don’t know what you’re going to be riding regularly, but I’d get a shimmable pad too. I have no experience with the MT, but I can say the Pessoa was about what I’d expect given the price point (which was around $1500 new.)[/QUOTE]
The AMS flocking in the AO XCH is wonderful - but you’d have to have it fit to one of the horses and shim to the others. New, it’s around $2,800, used, can be had for $1500 but not easy to find. Our pony is a wide top of the line large with a fairly prominent trapezius; with the wide plate and flocking adjusted / checked twice a year she is happy.
what do you guys think about the bates hunter jumper saddle they have this one available on dovers website any personal reviews on it?
http://www.doversaddlery.com/bates-hunter-jumper-saddle/p/X1-15638/
[QUOTE=Squekers998;8607258]
what do you guys think about the bates hunter jumper saddle they have this one available on dovers website any personal reviews on it?
http://www.doversaddlery.com/bates-hunter-jumper-saddle/p/X1-15638/[/QUOTE]
I think it would be better to save your money and ride in the saddles that are provided for the horse… Worry about purchasing a saddle when YOU have a horse and saddle fitter.
I’m a stickler for saddle fit though personally, I would hate to be forced to work in the wrong shoe size and I imagine horses could feel the same way about their saddles.
[QUOTE=beowulf;8607276]
I think it would be better to save your money and ride in the saddles that are provided for the horse… Worry about purchasing a saddle when YOU have a horse and saddle fitter.
I’m a stickler for saddle fit though personally, I would hate to be forced to work in the wrong shoe size and I imagine horses could feel the same way about their saddles.[/QUOTE]
I wish I could, but the saddle that’s provided for the horse the owner is even saying I need a saddle of my own. She has a Pessoa saddle 16"
Yeah, but when the lease is up in 6 months or whatever or she sells it out from under you, as happens with lease horses or you have a disagreement and terminate the lease? You face looking for another temporary horse that saddle may not fit adjustable tree or not. Only the gullet is adjustable, the cantle can pitch up or down for example, either digging into the back under the cantle or forcing the forward part of the tree into the back/shoulder and also have a negative effect on your position. Then what?
If memory serves you started riding a littke over a year ago, only ride a couple of days a week, only take one lesson weekly. I wouldn’t invest more then a few hundred at this point. For the 1500 you mention, you can get a used Butet, Childric or similar when you get a more permanent horse arrangement and start riding more. Not to mention things you posted about at work stabilize or you move to another position. Right now is just not the time for a major financial commitment to something that’s way more a luxury item want then actual need at this point.
There is nothing wrong with just telling them you shouldn’t put the money in one right now and it’s just not an option at this point. That’s why you are part leasing instead of full leasing or buying your own horse. Most owners and trainers will work something out with you tack wise, even lease you a saddle or let you use theirs for an on property part lease.
It would be hard to find within your budget, but a friend works for a very BNR, and he is sponsored by Butet. She rides a CWD, but she prefers his Butets because they fit a TON of stuff much better than most saddles.
When saddle shopping, I stayed far, far away from anything adjustable. Unfortunately, there is no guarantee that any horse you buy a saddle for will stay with you forever. I bought my saddle used for my guy, and I retired him two weeks ago unexpectedly… We got about 10 rides in the saddle before retirement. Luckily, I am able to strategically pad my saddle on the horses I ride. It’s got a decent curve in the tree, but it isn’t too banana. It’s also a standard medium width. It fits a lot of stuff pretty well, as I am lessoning right now.
You have a much bigger budget than me. I would go with nice and used. My saddle is an older Albion. I rode in a Beval and a MT when shopping, and I thought both had really uncomfortable twists. Maybe you could talk to a fitter about a good saddle that might be able to fit multiple horses and yourself without going adjustable and compromising quality?
I had a Bates that sort of landed in my lap and when I was having my fitter check another saddle, I asked her to give it a once over she pointed out to me the saddle was built with panels that were 100% not a matching pair. To the company’s credit, they were great about replacing it for me and it was several years old at that point, but I would say the same thing about their quality control as MT. The leather is also impossible to break in.
The biggest tip from my fitter was buy the highest quality used saddle you can afford and make sure the panels really match (unless fitting an asymmetrical horse, and even then you’re going to want assistance). It was really surprising to me just how many saddles don’t have evenly shaped panels - something like half of all of the ones I looked at were off with just one glance to tell, and I was looking at saddles that sell for $5k plus new.
Saddle fitters don’t tend to love them but the old Pessoa A/O’s can usually be padded up pretty nicely to fit most things and I love the feel of riding in them.
