Adjusting Fence Strides for Small/Large Horses - why not?

[AAHunterGal]

I recently bought a perfectly lovely 15.1h mare who is 4 coming 5, and may grow a bit more, but also may not.

I plan on doing her in the 3’ Adult Amateurs since she has a good sized step and won’t have trouble making the lines at that height. She’s well bred enough and has a nice jump that the 3’3" would be doable on a perfect day, but it would be much more difficult if I made a mistake.

I recently took an online clinic with Chris Wynne and mentioned my plans with her, and did he have a problem with smaller horses / would they pin below larger horses. He said that in his opinion, the smaller ones sometimes jumped 3’ better, so in he didn’t see any issue.

Then he said, “In the A/Os, that would be harder. I don’t know why they don’t adjust the strides for small horses versus large horses. They do for the ponies, it just makes sense, but I don’t think that will ever change for the horses.” <–paraphrased from memory, the clinic was back in October, so may be not word exact.

That got me thinking - if someone like Chris Wynne is wondering and saying that it makes sense, why isn’t this a thing / why isn’t this something that folks talk about? It would make the smaller hony market much more viable - and let’s face it, most of us would rather ride 15.1h buck than a 16.3h buck, lol. That’s why I went small myself!

[NancyM]

I think it would be “very strange” to adjust distances for smaller horses. Not something that “should be done”. The course is “the course”. The distances are “the distances”. I’ve had small horses who can take strides out of lines. Just because a horse is smaller does not mean that they don’t have a big stride, or a “big enough” stride, especially for small jumps under 3’6". The pony I had as a kid made horse strides no problem.
If you need a horse with a 12 foot stride, buy a horse with at least a 12 foot stride- it’s not difficult to do so. If you want to ride in the hunter division, you need to buy an “athlete”, with an adequate stride. There are a number of parameters that need to be considered in the horse you buy. If you are buying a horse with limitations in his stride length, it’s gonna limit you in what hunter divisions that horse might be competitive in… which is fine for some people who never want to progress to the bigger divisions.

Don’t work to make the “hunter divisions” any EASIER than they already ARE. In my day as a junior ALL the Junior Working Hunter classes were set at 3’6", and on a 12 foot stride. And yes, we all survived just fine… and there was no such thing as a “Warmblood”- had not been invented yet.

[endlessclimb]

@NancyM

Don’t work to make the “hunter divisions” any EASIER than they already ARE.

Youch.

[Tini_Sea_Soldier1]

I don’t think it should be adjusted for strides, but I have always thought that it was interesting that juniors have their horses broken out into small juniors and large juniors for size and the AO’s do not.

[Trekkie]

Some horses are pretty capable and athletic but go around more smoothly in a hunter style doing the add step vs the real. I had a mare that could do the real but had to sort of gallop down the lines and then was a bit exuberant at the end of the ring. She looked perfect and smooth doing the add step at 3 feet. Same easy rhythm and even strides. She was a bit over 15.1. I have always felt if a specific horse goes better doing the add and puts in a beautiful, consistent round they should not be penalized.

[chestnutmarebeware]

I wonder if he actually meant not penalizing horses that add strides as long as they’re going smoothly and not jumping short or long. Which I support, as the owner of a 15hh hony!

Honestly, I’ve never understood why the number of strides a horse takes between fences are as important as the form over the fences and the overall impression of the round.

[Mander]

As someone who absolutely loathes the hurry-up-and-wait of hunter shows, I don’t want to wait around for them to set courses for smaller horses. There are already too many classes IMO.

Not to mention, where do you draw the line? Do small horses not compete against larger horses at all? What about the horses that don’t have a stride to match their height? The 15hh “hony” who has a 12’ stride? Do they compete in the “tall horse” divisions or the “small horse” divisions?

I’ll be honest - I don’t think people trend away from smaller horses just because they can’t make the step (Theodore O’Connor should have soundly put that worry to rest). I think they trend away because they don’t make as much of a visual statement when they walk in the ring. If you’re showing me two horses to buy, one of them 17hh and the other 15hh - the 17hh one is probably going to take your breath away in a way the little one will not.

The other reason is the littler horse will have to make more of an effort over the fence itself, which may not be easy for the rider (especially if they want to move up quickly). My last lease was a huge-strided 17hh OTTB who didn’t start to actually “jump” until the fences hit 3’3’’ - everything else was just an “upward” stride. There was a 15hh QH at the barn who could make the step, but created that same “big jump” feel at the 2’ mark. It was beautiful if you could ride it, but the gal who owned him had to sell him because she was still learning to jump 2’ fences, but his effort over the fence demanded she had the skill/athleticism of a 3’ - 3’6’’ rider.

[Mander]

@chestnutmarebeware

Honestly, I’ve never understood why the number of strides a horse takes between fences are as important as the form over the fences and the overall impression of the round.

I’ve actually talked to a few judges about this (maybe the opinions are different at rated shows), but the attitude is changing a bit so that the judges don’t generally mind the add as long as 1) it’s not marked on the course and 2) it’s consistent throughout the round. If you’ve got two lines that are the same distance and you get the step in one, but add in the other, then they’ll penalize you for it, but if you do the add in both (and assuming it looks nice) then it might only be relevant to break a tie.

[LaurieB]

@chestnutmarebeware

Honestly, I’ve never understood why the number of strides a horse takes between fences are as important as the form over the fences and the overall impression of the round.

Because currently more riders can count than can actually ride a course.

[giddybiddy]

I did the add stride all last summer on the hony that I lease (although it was in the 2’ and 2’3", which does make a significant difference) and we placed quite well. He’s an older guy, and I was so glad that the judges didn’t penalize his (very cute!) add step. But I know that if we moved up a division or two, we’d be lambasted. It’s a bummer.

[StormyDay]

I don’t think they should reset the course for smaller horses, but they should stop penalizing for the add.
I’d really like that to be a rule change, that while there can be a suggested striding in lines, there is no penalty for adding or leaving out strides. I’ve ridden 18h horses who have struggled to make the distance because they naturally just have too big of a stride.

@NancyM how dare they make hunters more inclusive. Whatever will we do if we have to compete against people who can’t afford to only buy 17h imported warmbloods!

[LazyA1]

I am talking about 3’ and under horses here. I am going to assume a 3’ horse also has a good step.

I’m getting older and my horses are getting smaller. I currently have a 15.2 horse with a giant stride who does the 2’3" hunter 12’ strides with ease (I’m getting old not older, I guess). But for that low of a jump, you need a nice big stride to make the distances which he does easily being the world’s best horse that he is. My other riding horse is 15.3 and has an 11’ stride even when he is on a little gallop. I will add on that one, and will have a blast at 2’3".

I go to show after show where people on smallish horses try to run around the course to make the step for the lines. It’s scary when they don’t quite make it down the line and the horse leaps or stops.

IMO there should be a place for honies. They are fun and safe. We can afford them. The judges should either not penalize the add or they should have their own 11’ division.

The one thing that bothers me to no end for my add-step horse is when the course designer puts in lines shorter than 4 strides. The shorter the line, the more difficult to add! If courses are designed with the add step horses in mind (bending lines, five stride or more lines), they will have a chance to look nice.

[LazyA1]

@NancyM

If you need a horse with a 12 foot stride, buy a horse with at least a 12 foot stride- it’s not difficult to do so.

Easier said than done $$$$$$$$

[Foitin]

There is a lot going on here, but a couple little points:
they couldn’t divide the A/Os by size because unless you’re at WEF or other big circuits, there are just not enough horses. They can barely divide 3’3/3’6 or by the ages.

I actually do avoid smaller horses with small steps (not that they all do, of course) when I can because a small step makes me really nervous. It is scary to jump in a line deep and then have to haul like mad up the line in hopes your horse will not superman out or stop. I have flown over many heads! If you are not interested in making the step, this is of course not a problem, but if you want to do 5 in the 5, you had better be accurate and like to gallop.

Don’t get me wrong, to me, there is nothing more brilliant than a small hunter galloping around and making amazing efforts, but this takes a really good rider in my experience!

[AAHunterGal]

I would love it if they allowed the add for smaller horses, and would agree that would take care of the issue as well. When 12’ became the norm for measurement, horses carried much more pace / gallop than they do today. Getting the step AND achieving the current trend of a slow canter costs $$$ and is one reason why smaller horses top out at 3’. I think my mare could do higher jumps with the add quite nicely.

And to be clear, I’m not talking about “small strided” horses as much as I am smaller horses. Small horses can (and many do) have a nice big step, it’s just that when the fences get higher, it gets that much more difficult for them as opposed to their taller counterparts.

[kirbydog]

There are already a LOT of divisions at shows, from X’s and upwards, so why add yet another division?
The other problem with the horse that should be doing the adds, in the A/O’s, is you almost always have to deal with a combination; a 2 stride, a 4 to a 2, a 5 to a 1, whatever. Doing the adds there would be very difficult, possibly dangerous, and probably inappropriate for the divisions.
But in the 2’6 and lower, if the horse is quality, and the ride is good, then sure, why not? I’ve seen it done many times. May not get a prize in a bigger class, but safety first

[NancyM]

Nope, not $$$$$$$$$$. Just select a horse with a good step. They come off the track each year, for cheap. And yes, they can still do the job just as well as they did in the past. Don’t get sucked into being told that you have to spend a lot of money to get a talented horse. If you don’t have the money to buy one that is already fully trained and winning, you just have to make your own. That’s what horsemen DO.

[findeight]

Dont care how smooth they are with the add, at a competitive, rated show you could have a 3 jump line of verticle, 4 strides to an oxer then 2 strides to an oxer out of the line and you cant safely cram 3 in there. And if you reset for strides, are you also going to reduce the width of the oxers and rolltops?

Anybody remember the effort to create a rated division for Small Hunters? Maybe 10 years ago. Everybody claimed they wanted it and would bring their horses if it was offered. So they voted to offer it, think it was 15.2 and under with a measurement card required.

Unfortunately when the time came to hitch up and haul their Small Hunter to the shows that offered it? Few did. Think it filled in Virginia for a bit but flopped elsewhere.

There are many local non USEF shows that offer “ friendlier” courses and are more open to trying different things to suit their exhibitor base. They are cheaper too. Talk to them about doing a bit more to suit a greater number of their exhibitors but if they are receptive, be sure to show up when they offer to work with you.

I never had a horse over 16h and most were 15.3 or under. I just had to ride them to the center, keep them straight, use the corners to maintain step instead of take it away and manage that canter. Mine were all a nickel short in step, I learned to ride them to smooth that out without adding.

Its always something with horses. None are perfect.

[StormyDay]

Hmm, it’s still showing on mine

[Fiesta01]

Oops. I decided it was little too snarky. Sorry! Let me try again.