No, I’m speaking of big rated shows too—and I’m speaking more literally than you, I think. As in, they do not move the jumps for the handy class, compared to the preceding class in the same division. So, yes, they are literally jumping the same lines/fences, just in a different order (and obviously, trot jump).
They do not move the fences, they jump the same fences, but they do not jump the same lines (they jump far fewer actual lines in the handy compared to non-handy classes).
The two non-handy courses have the riders jumping the same lines but in a different order. Most handy hunter courses might have one straight “line” that is the same as the other classes (not including the two stride or in and out). The rest of the jumps are jumped as broken lines or roll backs.
They are absolutely not jumping a course of single jump, outside line, diagonal line, outside line, diagonal line in the handy hunter classes the same as they do in the non-handy classes. I’m not sure what you are watching.
I am saying the same thing as you. Relax.
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No, it isn’t (generally). But there is a trend these days to set fences at LONGER than 12" strides, so…
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Is that common at the hunter shows?
It was commonly acknowledged more than 10 years ago when I last showed hunters that lines in the 3’ and up divisions at rated shows were regularly set at 12’6” or even 13’ distances. I can’t imagine that that would have changed recently but can’t swear that it hasn’t.
I was showing a 15.1 Arab cross in the Adult Amateurs at the time. He was VERY competitive (KHJA year end award winner, in fact) when the lines were set at 12’. But he and I had to scramble a bit when the lines were set longer, especially in short (1-3 stride) lines.
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Lol I had a feeling that maybe you were just having a hard time using the right words to describe what you meant. All good!
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The root of the sport is fox hunting, thank you @MHM. I’m a little surprised this factoid wasn’t brought up sooner…? Not only is a short-strided horse less comfortable for hours on end, it’s literally taking more steps every hour to keep up with the big striders, and will be more likely to tire.
And given that this is a sport, a line must be drawn somewhere, and a 12’ step is our baseline.
Hunters are held to an ideal but judged against one another, so adding variables just makes it more difficult to judge. The whole course is designed to encourage the horse to jump its absolute best, all we idiot riders have to do is find the ins and a couple of singles. Which most anyone can do to some degree, but there is a built-in take-off point from which the average horse jumps best, and that’s the distance you’re supposed to find. Nobody’s gonna die jumping a course of singles they didn’t get to walk, but chances are they’re not gonna find 8 hunter distances.
Allow the adds “just because” and you’ll see everyone slow down (even more lol) because every horse jumps better from a crawl.
Anyway, there are standards, and there are legit reasons for them. Another major one is to discourage the breeding of subpar sport horses. There are places to show the non-purpose-breds that have jumping talent, but if the step is not there then the rated circuit is not one of them. And that is okay.
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WEF posts all their courses online every day. Most of the country’s course designers work there at some point each year, so you can get a good representation. And Also a feel for what happens for the specs of each division. Or inspiration for your own ring.
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I showed my large pony in the hunters this year against the big warmbloods. I did the add in the lines (no walking, but the “feet” were posted on the board.). It was a bit of a mixed bag on placing though. I did the 2’3" open division (as in pros and ammys) and 2’6" AA division.
Some times we placed well and sometimes we didn’t place at all. I like to watch rounds before me to see how the lines rode. I notice if its a big horse with a big stride and see how they make it down the lines to make my plan. I always did the add in every single line and it worked out well for me and my pony - as in a nice flow, not too slow or too quick. Sometimes it was a little tougher to get the add in the shorter lines (5 or 6 stride lines. There were times a couple of strides in I knew I was on the chip in to the out jump, so I would slightly ride it to the inside to make the line look smooth and not have that awkward chip jump on the way out) but our 8 stride lines (84’) seem to have me push him on a little more, especially if it was away from home and the ring was a tad uphill that way - or I would have to hold him a little if the line was towards home and downhill a tad. I sure had to work for it!
I also watched a few rounds where I would see a horse add in 1 line and not in the 2 others, I would ride it and do the add in all 3 lines and that horse would place above me. I guess the judge saw it as the horse only added in 1 line while I added in all 3. Hated seeing that but I knew it was a possibility going in…
Our divisions were big with 50+ in the open classes and around 25 in the AA ones, so I was happy to get a ribbon on any day. I actually finished 2nd in the AA and 4th in the Open at year end so I was very proud of that. The hacks were hard as I was always passed and pushed to the outside. I always tried to ride on the inside but its tough to do on a pony against some 17h+ giants. But thats the way it goes.
I did always walk the derby classes since they never posted the line lengths. We did have an interesting one with and in and and out and I was trying to decide what to do there as they did post the length of the “2 stride” as well as one of the lines there (60’). So should I do the add and do 6 strides and keep to the 2 stride, or go for the 5 stride and do the 2 stride…(doing the in and out in 3 would have been ugly and super tight). But alas, so many people complained about doing an in and out in a 2’6" derby that they removed it. I was actually looking forward to it and the challenge on my pony as I made the plan to do the 2 and 5.
On to the jumper ring the next time where I won’t have to stress so much on the judging and lines…
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Typically it’s better to add consistently in all the lines. Maybe there was some other factor involved.
I am with this poster. I admit I have not been to a hunter show in a few years but I had never seen anyone walking the courses.
Just adding 1 stride to each line. Hopefully the link works, I’m not great with this stuff…
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For sure. Its subjective, something I totally get. I will never know and its totally up to the judge. I would never hold it against anyone!
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Can you link me? I’m on ShowGroundsLive and don’t see them. Would love some inspiration.
Courses from yesterday. That website has a LOT of useful stuff, including live feeds and replays of the big jumper classes at WEF.
Menu-> quick links-> esp course maps
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I think not until the 70s, I was a junior in the 60s, hunter divisions were still often held over outside courses where the horses really galloped and being small was not a disadvantage. Pear Tree Farm’s (Mrs. TVW Cushny) Sight Unseen was 14.3 and was AHSA Horse of the Year in the Junior Hunters in the early-mid 60s when all the fences were 3’6" and she continued competing in the juniors until 1969 at least. She was small but very impressive!
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